# Hello from SOCAL



## fletch0467

We just joined and would like to say hello. We just bought a 2007 Keystone VR 279 Travel Trailer, We will be hitting the road this May 2012, Traveling back home to PA and the northeast. We are looking to buy a Ford F-250 7.3 Diesel this Feb. to pull this. Any comments or suggestions on this truck and engine? MPG ? ect. Thank You.:shrug:


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## artmart

Check the GVWR of the trailer then make sure the weight ratings are satisfied (CGVWR, GVWR, GTWR and AWR) even with a diesel truck.

A diesel provides better power and torque and mpgs than a gas engine. The last year that 7.3L was sold new was 2002, so these trucks will be about 10 years old. An F250 has over 1,000 to 1,500 lbs less it can carry compared to an F-350, so it's significant.

Depending on how you drive and how fast you haul (please don't go over 65mph maximum - most trailer tires aren't rated higher than that) and what the wind and weather conditions will determine your actual mpgs, but rest assured they will be better than a gasser. Plus you get the extra power with a diesel.

Besides the engine and transmission there are too many other factors that determine weight ratings, so just because your engine has no problems doesn't mean the other components won't. It's these other components that determine how much weight a vehicle can tow without exception.


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## fletch0467

Thanks for the info. Dry Weight is 6,600 and GVW of trailer is 9705. We have been looking at the F-250 and Excursion both with 7.3 power stroke diesel. Trailer came with Eaz-Lift 1000 Ultra weight dist. hitch


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## artmart

Never look at dry weight!!! That's what sales people use to sell you the trailer. But it will never weigh that again as soon as you drive it off the lot and start putting add-ons, gear and such. The GVWR (gross vehicle weight RATING) is what you want. I think the 9705 is the GVWR unless you've weighed the trailer and that's the actual GVW (gross vehicle weight). If so, then look for the GVWR. There is a difference between the two acronyms. GVWR is what you should never exceed. GVW is that the trailer actually weighs with everything in it and hopefully never exceeds the GVWR (max allowable weight). Don't forget to allow for the dump tanks which get filled up as you use them. Try not to tow too far with them full if you don't have to.

An F-250 with a 7.3L SHOULD be good with that hitch and trailer (maybe 12,500lb tow rating?). The Excursion will have less tow rating because it is already carrying the weight of the back end, extra seats, etc (and I think its tow rating is 10,000lb). This will lessen the cargo and tow capacities. The F-250 will tow better than the Excursion because it weighs less with less body components all around. But unless the 7.3L is a Crew Cab, you'll have less room for passengers.

When you buy your vehicle get to the scales and weigh it with just you all and fluids filled up. The F-250 pickup will weigh less than an Excursion. You also can't go by the documented numbers for cargo, or capacity for either vehicle because all vehicles will weigh differently depending on the equipment, accessories, options and stuff like that being added will change these numbers. Only a scale will tell you what you weight. You can only go by the GVWR which are the RATINGs for either vehicle. Don't go over those.

That WDH is what you want. The tongue weight allows for a 10,000 lb trailer which is what you have (9,705) assuming you don't overload the trailer over it's GVWR. By the tow ratings I mentioned above, you should note the F-250 has more capacity while the Excursion will be just about maxed out.


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## fletch0467

Thank You for the info..and Yes the Max weight of Trailer is 9705 lbs. I will be shopping for the F-250 and F-350. The previous owners towed this trailer with a F-150 5.4 lit. They said the Weight Distributing Hitch made up for it, I am not buying that. We will be making cross country trips to the northeast , florida keys, ect. Just the 2 of us so a extended cab will work. Thanks again. Al and Colette:thumbup1:


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## artmart

Good Job on the truck. The F-150 was definitely overloaded by almost a TON! The WDH does not make up for anything. The WDH only keeps the trailer connected to the truck. This wouldn't help the truck AT ALL. People always try to find something to justify their ignorance.

The extended cab (aka Supercab) might have better weight ratings (notice I am not saying tow ratings) at some areas than a crew cab because the Crew Cab is heavier (heavier seats, more metal, etc.) This means with the same engine, trans and everything else, the SuperCab can probably carry more cargo.

It's always a balancing act. Not only do you have to maintain the weight ratings, you've got to ensure the weight is distributed evenly as much as possible.

I think you've got the right idea and the rest of us really appreciate you are trying to do things right.


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## fletch0467

Thanks again, I always do things the right way (Quality Control Inspector for DOD= 33 yrs). If everyone did everything the right way....the world would be a safer and happier place.


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## dogbone

fletch0467, First let me say welcome to the club. In my opinion the 7.3 powerstroke was one of the best diesels out there. Very reliable. The 6.0 and the 6.4 left a lot to be desired. The 6.7 remains to be seen. I have the 6.0 with 160,000 mile on it. It's in the shop, first time though. I was one of the lucky ones. Art is right about the power, fuel mileage and towing, but there is a down side. Fuel is higher and so is the maintenance. However, I wouldn't want to tow without a diesel. 
Either one of your choices will tow the trailer fine. Tow capacity on both is around 12,000lbs. The Excursion might be a little less, I didn't search it. Your trailer is 9,700, give or take, loaded to the max. The tongue weight is 780lbs. This number will go up as you load the trailer, but not by much. You can off set this by how you load. Check the receiver. It will have the max weight, to put on it, stamped on it somewhere. Probably 1000lbs, depending on which one was installed.
TT, most of the weight is on the axles, with very little on the tongue. Unlike the 5th wheels, which have 20% of the weight on the pin. For example. If your trailer was a 5th wheel, you would be putting around 1800lbs in the truck. 20% of the fully loaded trailer. This is the reason you see smaller vehicles pulling TT, 1/2 tons and full size jeeps, vans. A F150 can tow nearly 10,000lbs, but it can't take 1,800 in the bed. It will take a tongue weight of 780lbs.
I keep a few gallons of water in my tanks, just to keep them from drying out, especially the black tank. Fresh water, enough for the emergency pit stops. Full tanks aren't good, not just for the weight, but for the stress on the hardware that keeps them in place.
I'm not familiar with your WDH. My father in law, carried a pipe to tighten up the chains. He would mark the chains, once he got the truck and trailer level. Doing this he didn't have to count the links any more.
Good luck and enjoy your trip. Happy camping and again welcome to the club.

Bob


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## fletch0467

Thanks Bob, I did read the 2005 Ford F-150 could Tow up to 9,800 lbs(144.5 wheel base 5.4 lit. 3.73 rear diff. super cab). We just feel safer with the 3/4 ton frame, also only using 80% of the trucks towing capacity. dont like being close to max. Thanks again,
AL and Colette


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## dogbone

I know you were looking at the F250 or F350. Good choice. Dodge, Ford or Chevy. Down the road you might be looking for a 5th wheel or a bigger trailer. You will already have the truck. The F150 was just added information.
When,if you get the truck, make sure you put a fuel additive in it. The diesel fuel now, doesn't have the lubrication capabilities of the previous years. The newer diesel are ok with it. The older ones are not. It's the low sulfur fuel. This is according to my repairman, working on my truck. He is also a friend. The injectors will go bad. He said don't go below a 1/4 tank and put the stuff in at every fueling. Diesel before 2006 need the additive. Just some info. Here is a link to more info Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums I use 8, 10 and 12, what ever is on sale. Mostly Power Service Diesel Clean.
Have fun. Another 90 day or so, we will be back camping again.


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## fletch0467

Thank You for the info. I did not know about the fuel and additives. We have been looking mostly at Ford, the GMC and Chevy 3/4 tons look good to. I just dont know about their diesel engines ? dont know anyone that has owned them or heard any rumors. I do know a few people here locally that own the ford diesels and say great things about them. We have plenty of time to look at them all and dont have to rush to buy. I will not even look at dodge, owned 3 dodge vehicles(vans) and had very bad luck with them....replaced engines and trans. in all 3 by myself. We currently own a 1997 Chevy Astro 9 pass.V-6 vortec fully loaded. Runs great just little problems with it, 146K miles. going to go over it and clean it up....sell it for 1500 or best offer after new year. (tax season)
Thanks again Bob. AL and Colette


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## dogbone

Sorry to hear about your Dodges. I was going to mention the Cummings has been a great diesel for a lot of years. I had a 97, put a little over 350.00 miles on her. Trans gave me a problem about 150,000. My son took it to get it beefed up, but apparently took it to the wrong place. We had it rebuilt by a guy I knew. He did the right thing. No problems after that. Towed and plowed with it. The weak link back then was the transmission. It couldn't handle the torque.
I don't know to much about the duramax diesels. I know a few years back they had some overheating problems when towing. Haven't heard anything since. A few people, in my camping club, love them. There are also a bunch that like the new Dodge's, with the new trans. My son has a 2006, 3500, I have to admit it's a good truck. Tows great. He got it with the 6 speed stick.
I told you I had my Ford in the shop. Injectors, fuel pump and egr valve. I got it home it would start then stall. If I plugged the block heater in it would start and run fine. I took it back figuring the glow plugs, cause it would start when plugged in. It wasn't glow plugs. It was the FICM, fuel injector control module. All tallied up, the cost was $5,600. Ouch, but it is the first time I've had to put money into it, except for regular maintenance.
You have time to ponder on what truck you want. Good luck with your decision. Hope I helped and not hindered that.


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## fletch0467

When we start looking at trucks I will send you a message for your opion as far as make, price, year and miles. If you dont mind? Thank You, Al and Colette :10220:


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## fletch0467

*Ford 5.4 liter 24V and 6.8 V-10 Engines*

Found a 2006 Lincoln Navigator 66K miles with a 5.4 liter was wondering if anyone has any info on this engine for towing? also 2005 Ford Excursion with a 6.8 liter V-10 any info on this engine? 
We still want the diesel 7.3 but looking at all options in our $13,000 price range
Thank You for any help with this. 
Al and Colette


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## Gerry

*Navigator for towing*

You definately DO NOT want the Navigator for towing close to 10k. Not only would it be over capacity and worked very hard, on a 6% grade you'd be listening to a screaming engine, probably making 40mph, and going down the grade would be a white knuckle experience for sure. I would add that in my opinion look for a truck with a towing capacity at least 15% more than your trailer's gross weight.


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## fletch0467

I was thinking the same thing....thanks for the input.....sticking with the 3/4 ton trucks. I have noticed that the GMC and Chevy 1500 series can handle 10,000 lbs. Ford F-150 does not. I guess if I want Ford have to get F-250 or 350


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## Gerry

*chevy 1500 ratings*

They may claim 10k but if you use one close to that number you will probably find that it is really pushing it, and that's if the truck is new. Older vehicles have older bearings, springs, transmissions etc that will break down more quickly when pushed to the limit. Which is the reason I suggest getting a tow rig rated at least 15% above the max weight of your RV. Remember a half ton will have smaller bearings, smaller brakes and less capacity tires also. I know it adds to the price but to me the added safety a three quarter ton brings is well worth the price.


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## smores101

:welcome: getting great advice already!


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## hideout

well said,2500 or bigger would be a good idea,because you just might want a bigger trailer in a year or so and your truck depending on how much you use it,will most likely have a whole lot more miles to go on it,so go with the 2500 especially if it is a ford.:thumbup1:


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## hideout

:thumbup1:


artmart said:


> Check the GVWR of the trailer then make sure the weight ratings are satisfied (CGVWR, GVWR, GTWR and AWR) even with a diesel truck.
> 
> A diesel provides better power and torque and mpgs than a gas engine. The last year that 7.3L was sold new was 2002, so these trucks will be about 10 years old. An F250 has over 1,000 to 1,500 lbs less it can carry compared to an F-350, so it's significant.
> 
> Depending on how you drive and how fast you haul (please don't go over 65mph maximum - most trailer tires aren't rated higher than that) and what the wind and weather conditions will determine your actual mpgs, but rest assured they will be better than a gasser. Plus you get the extra power withit
> 
> Besides the engine and transmission there are too many other factors that determine weight ratings, so just because your engine has no problems doesn't mean the other components won't. It's these other components that determine how much weight a vehicle can tow without exception.


 on that we agree artmart,you should allways buy more truck than you need,then if you need it you have it,and diesel is the best way to go,especially if you want to pull something,but if cost is a factor,gas motor is cheaper.:thumbup1:


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## fletch0467

We have been in the market for 4 months to buy a F-250 super cab, short box to pull our 29 ft RV Trailer (bumper pull 9,700GVW). The better half just fell in love with the Excursions. I have been doing alot of research on both. I have found that the F-250 is rated to pull 10K. and the Excursion 4X2 = 10,500K. 4X4 = 11,000K. Is this correct ? Does anyone on here have any info on this? Thank You for any info on this. (sorry to re-visit this topic again)


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## crawford

Glad to have you on board happy camping.:10220::welcome:


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## dogbone

fletch0467 said:


> We have been in the market for 4 months to buy a F-250 super cab, short box to pull our 29 ft RV Trailer (bumper pull 9,700GVW). The better half just fell in love with the Excursions. I have been doing alot of research on both. I have found that the F-250 is rated to pull 10K. and the Excursion 4X2 = 10,500K. 4X4 = 11,000K. Is this correct ? Does anyone on here have any info on this? Thank You for any info on this. (sorry to re-visit this topic again)


The closest I could find was a 2005 Excursion. With the 6.0 or the V10 the towing capacity was 11,000 lbs. The pay load changed a bit, because the V 10 was lighter, by about 300 lbs. You can put more in/on the V10 equipped Excursion. The 5.4 V8, not close. 7,600 lbs. capacity. You wouldn't want to tow with that anyway. Remember, your trailers tongue weight will get subtracted from the payload of the Excursion. Tongue 500lbs est. from 1559 leaves you 1059 lbs left that you can put in the Excursion. 2005 Ford Excursion XLS 4dr SUV 6.0L V8 Turbodiesel 5-speed Automatic Features and Specs This is the website I found the info on.
Forget about being sorry. Ask away. We are all here to help and try to make camping a great experience. Good luck. Bob


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## artmart

I don't know how old of an F-250 you were looking at, but they have much higher ratings than 10,000 lbs. A diesel F-250 from about 2002 and up is 12,500 for a bumper pull. This is higher than an Excursion because it does not have the added weight of the seats and metal from a diesel Excursion. When comparing the same model years of an F-250 versus an Excursion and the F-250 should beat it every time. While the Excursion provides more passenger space, the extra weight will take away from the cargo weight. Don't forget to allow for some margin.

The biggest concern for an Excursion is that there will more of a tendency to get overweight because there is more space to load stuff. Many owners think about fitting more stuff into a vehicle because there's room for it, but forget how much the items weigh which is when owner's get themselves "in trouble".

The drawback to an F-250 is that you can carry more cargo, but passenger space is more limited. I have been putting a cover on my pickups which then allows the whole truck bed to be used for storage when pulling a bumper tow. I also installed a Yakima bike rack system on the truck bed rails for bicycles and avoided using a bumper bike rack that bounces around a lot when carrying bikes and enroute. I bring this up because there has been lots of stories of damage from bikes on a bike rack that are installed on the rear end of the trailer especially if the load is not strapped down real well. Nowadays I have a fifth wheel which means the cover gets removed from most of the bed to be able to tow the 5er, but I still carry cargo. When I'm not towing then the cover gets put back in place and the truck bed then remains safe and keeps the cargo safer from the elements. This provides far more space and cargo than Excursion, but I never need more than 5 or 6 passengers. More than that and an Excursion and lighter loads will prevail.

Lots to think about! Just don't forget to weigh your rig and check all points of concern. If ANY point is overweight, then you are overweight.


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## fletch0467

Thank You for the great info. Bought a 2008 Ford F-250 6.4 diesel this past wednesday. It has 200K miles but looks and runs like new. It was a fleet vehicle and serviced by the dealer, it was in our price range (same price as 99-03). Glad the research and shopping is over....very stressful and time consuming.


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## dogbone

Congratulations and good luck with her. Remember to put the fuel additive in when you fill up. It will pull your trailer like it's not even there. Now all you have to do is get out there and have some fun. Bob


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## fletch0467

I was reading the owners manual about fuel,says use the ultra low sulfur diesel 15ppm max, do not use additives, then next page says use motorcraft cetane boost. I was thinking about using diesel kleen...better MPG. ???


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## dogbone

fletch0467 said:


> I was reading the owners manual about fuel,says use the ultra low sulfur diesel 15ppm max, do not use additives, then next page says use motorcraft cetane boost. I was thinking about using diesel kleen...better MPG. ???


I don't know if I said anything before, but I went for a bundle on replacing all my ejectors and the FICM, almost 4 grand. My friend did the work, he owns his own shop, he gave me a break on the injectors,but couldn't on the FICM. He had to get it from Ford and a Ford tech had to program it. Anyway, he told me to use the additive every time I filled up. He said the new low sulfur fuels don't have the lubrication the old fuel had. I will mention it to him, next time I see him, about what your book said and see what he knows or thinks. He has a 7.3 and I have the 6.0. Maybe the 6.4 is different. I will let you know.
I use Diesel Service, Diesel supplement. It has the cetane boost, added lubrication for the injectors and anti gel qualities. That's what he uses and recommended. Stanadyne also makes a good product. A bit pricey and you need to add more to each tankful. 
As far as boosting the cetane, anything that will get you better gas mileage can't hurt. From what I heard those engines weren't very good on mileage.
As I said before, good luck with the new truck and trailer. Let us know how your first time out turns out. Spring's coming.


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## fletch0467

Thanks, that would be great to get info from a ford tech. I wont run it until i know for sure. I put 22 gallons in it before i brought it home and now it is just sitting in front of trailer. I use a ford focus for daily driving(truck is just for camper only). Its strange how the owners manual tells you no additives....then next page use motorcraft cetane boost :shrug:


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## dogbone

One reason, it's made by Ford. Motorcraft is a Ford company.


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## fletch0467

yes...figured that...i will run the diesel kleen in it...boost the cetane probably help a little with the MPG's from what i have read on power stroke and diesel bombers forums. Thank You all SOO MUCH for the help and advise. this is a great site with great people.


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## artmart

We're glad we could help. You'll have to tell us about your first few trips!


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## fletch0467

First trip is to willmington Nort Carolina, May 1. going back for a wedding. the I-40 starts in Barstow Ca. and ends in N.C. theres a sign...willmington N.C. 2,500 miles. So we will run the I-40 all the way across :thumbup1:


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## artmart

Wow, you ain't messing around... I've been on I-40 many times starting in Barstow, CA with different distances each time. The farthest East I've been on I-40 was to Asheville, NC, then took I-26 south to Spartanburg SC. We weren't towing.

I hope you keep it under 65 when towing. Check the trailer tires, there's a good chance they are rated for only a max speed of 65. Obviously this is NOT a day trip. Be safe and I hope everyone has fun.


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## fletch0467

setting the cruise at 55 (60 MAX)....taking our time and stop to camp every evening....maybe 6-7 days to get there. Time is on our side....:thumbup1:


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## fletch0467

*Cross country trip*

We did the cross country trip, left April 27 and got back here June 8. 7,045 miles, that Diesel truck ran great. Adverage MPG was between 11-13 mpg @ 60mph, Diesel Kleen did what it says will do, we did pick up 1 mpg using it. :thumbup1:


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