# Black Bears & Tents



## bruiseviolet

I feel so silly- but I have a phobia of Bears. (thankfully we only have black bears here in Michigan). It never bothered me as a child, and we frequently went camping up in northern michigan in a tent- with bears all around. I now have 3 children of my own, and since our youngest is 2- we decided it time to start going camping with them- in our tent. 

I have tried to squash my fears by doing as much research as I can-- to educate myself more. So many experts have contradicting opinions on their behavior it's so confusing. Anyways- here is my stress right now (its already lead to sleepless nights-)

We are going to a campground that is surrounded by a large river on two sides, and a national forrest on the other two sides. While it's not in the middle of bear country (farther up north)- there are bears in the area. Because of this- they don't have things like bear proof food storage etc... So I would assume the bears aren't very frequent visitors to the campground or they would have more precautions in place? When i called to inquire about the bears- the ranger just said, "well we are next to the woods, so there can be bears". (which didn't calm my fears lol)

We are planning on leaving our food/coolers in our car (but it will be on our campsite). We have 3 children (and with a daughters friend coming- we will have 4 children) and anyone with children knows- they aren't crumb free. The thought of having to change clothes and make sure there is no food at all on them or clothes or in or around the tent seems a bit daunting to me (aka- my stress level is going to be so high- i'm not going to enjoy the camping in the evening/night). 

Should we just find somewhere more south of us where the likely hood of a bear is slim to none? 

Am I just being too paranoid? How far to do we take it? Keep toothpaste in the car? Scented deoderant? I feel like I have to go spend a fortune at the store to go get things that don't smell just for this 4 day camping trip). We've camped at other places with zero threat of a bear- and we have let the kiddos have a snack inside the tent- do i need to be concerned those smells are still lingering? What if my 2 year old (who isn't potty trained yet) poops in her diaper or pees at night and it attracts a bear to the tent? 

I am also concerned- because almost everyone in the campground we are going to has an rv or at the least a pop-up- so I feel like they aren't as careful about picking things up to keep from bears- because they are locked away inside aluminum walls for the night- lol so I'm afraid they will leave crumbs or something about that will attract the bears and then they will come to our tent- because we will be like scent city. 

I'm sorry this seems so silly- but it's a phobia- (irrational fear) and I'm trying to deal with it- I don't want to rob my kids of all the fun they can have camping, because I have a serious anxiety problem.


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## artmart

Everyone should fear bears, what you're missing is the respect and knowledge of bears and their right to exist to raise the calm when you are around them. Us humans are much smarter than they are and when you learn what we've learned then your fears will subside. Don't fall prey to the few horror stories of bear encounters provided by the media. I have had many bear encounters and all went well so you won't hear of the thousands of these types of bear encounters, but would help you realize bears aren't that bad. They are just hungry and you can help teach them to go look elsewhere for food.

You really need to contact the local rangers. It's not that the information is contradictory, it's that different places might require different procedures. Some things work and some things don't. When you learn all the techniques, then you will have more "weapons" against bears.

For example, many places I go, the tourists have been SO BAD, that black bears have learned that people mean food and people are careless and so the bears have decided that it's easier to get food from stupid people, than hunt for their own. It's so bad here that keeping a cooler in the car doesn't work any more, because the local bears have learned to recognize a cooler because it's where the food is. You must also COVER the cooler with blankets, etc. so the bears can't see and recognize the coolers or you'll get your car ripped open as they try to get at it. In these areas campground "bear lockers" have become required. Your area might not be this bad yet, but if bears start getting to coolers it will happen. But cover your cooler in the vehicle anyway. Use a large container for your non-cold food as well and keep it stowed and covered too.

Your phobia is fueled by only three things that made aware should help you. Bears want easily accessible food and once they have it, it's theirs. Lastly the mamas want to protect their young. If you make food inaccessible you solve two of the problems easily (don't let them get to it in the first place!). The second thing, is when you see that cute, cuddly, playful baby bear nearby, go the other way quickly.

Never surprise a bear!!! However if they surprise you, they hate noise, so go ahead and have fun, make lots of noise and they'll stay away and try to get away from the commotion. When a bear approaches camp, stand up, everyone gather together and makes LOTS of noise! Standing together, you'll appear much larger than them and they stay away to get away from the noise. You might want to invest in a portable siren (noise maker) which contains compressed air and a horn and you can keep on your belt or in camp at easy reach. You don't need continuous noise. Just short blasts until they retreat will do. They will then learn to associate humans with loud noise or other unpleasantries and not have an opportunity to locate YOUR food.

At night stow any items with odors (We keep our scented items in ONE bag that's easily stowable). Teach your kids to go to sleep in the tent with the next days change of clothing. NEVER take any food item or soiled clothing with food in the tent. 

This stuff works for Black Bears. For Grizzlies, other techniques are warranted but I won't get into them.


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## bruiseviolet

You are very correct. I don't think I came across clear enough- I'm not so much worried about us- I feel I know enough to do things properly to not worry about the bears. (My only concern is me and my teenage daughter wearing deodarant and our shampoo that smells in our hair after it's been washed. LOL) My fears stem from others- as I don't know if people have previously fed them or left food for them to get- where they associate the place with a way to get food. That is actually my concern- my fear of the other campers and previous campers.

I feel so silly calling the rangers to inquire about the bears- but it probably will be the best idea- because now my imagination is running wild. LOL From the way the previous ranger sounded when I spoke to him- it didn't sound there were really ever bears there- but that he had to say it's a possibility to cover their butts- otherwise i think he would have said something more along the lines of - yes we have bears- this is what we recommend etc.... Again, we grew up camping at this campground for YEaRS and my mom said there was never any signs of bears- however i do know the michigan bear population has grown significantly in the past 10 years. 

thank you for the reply- it really made me feel a lot better.

I also think- as an added measure for my peace of mind- we will park the car in the general parking area for the night- and not by our tent- and just move it by the tent during the day when we will be getting inside to use the cooler etc.


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## artmart

Good idea on parking the car elsewhere, but still don't forget to cover everything. I wear scented deodorant, toothpaste and shampoo, but no cologne (it's not needed and would be a little much) because I can't stand myself if I don't. But in that case we all have a natural body odor that the bears can smell too. So as sweet as you might smell, they smell a whole lot different. They are mostly curious about chemical odors because their instincts are that things with an odor should be investigated food, including animal carcasses that we couldn't stand and as long as doing so isn't uncomfortable. If they are curious about you and your daughter's odor and are met with the meanest and noisiest humans they've ever seen (you, your daughter and your ruckus), then they'll learn to ignore that smell if all humans do this!

Never hesitate to call a Ranger and ask about anything! It's their job. Get your taxpayer's moneys worth and get information from them they are paid to provide. Not only are rangers different in their delivery, so will the requirements for the areas they are responsible for. They don't mind. Some will make things more serious to emphasize their messages, but the goal is a little fear and apprehension should make you a better camper, not avoid camping. I have a tremendous amount of experience, however, I ALWAYS stop with the closest Ranger and ask for their take on things. A little extra information always goes a long way.


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## dogbone

I live in northern NJ. you would think we wouldn't have a lot of bear. Not true. I have 4 cubs come through my yard 3 times a week. They were cubs last year. Mama was with them. I think mama fell victum to this years bear hunt. Check out my album animal friends. I have pictures of them playing on my trampoline. One decided to take a dip in my pool. I didn't get a picture of that, mama was to close.
So far there hasn't been any problems. I respect them. They are looking for food, as Art said. His recommendations are right on. Our bear are getting somewhat domesticated, loud noises really doesn't bother them anymore. 
Our neighbor, however didn't want to listen to me about feeding birds. Winter time is fine, I feed them too. Bear like bird seed. He continued to feed them in the spring. I got a few pictures of what happened. He raises cockatoos, the bear wanted the seed so bad they tried to get in his house. They didn't make it in, good thing.
Hope I didn't make it worse for you. Just wanted to let you know living in bear country isn't as bad as some people make out to be. Use common sense and don't look like a hamburger.lol. Have fun camping.


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## bruiseviolet

Oh yes they love bird feeders. I have never seen a bear in our area- although I know there is a good possibility there are some bears in the area (they keep moving farther south into southern Michigan.) We live on a river, with protected land on the other side of the river- full of woods- so I am really surprised we haven't seen any bears. 

Thankfully, I don't think there's much in our yard they would be interested in (except maybe the trash bin). We keep our bird feeders suspended from our deck railing- which is a good 14 feet off the ground below. 

Cute pictures of the cubs =) And funny they would swim in a swimming pool =) That would have been a great photo to see.

Have you seen there mother around anywhere or just the cubs?


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## dogbone

Just the cubs or yearlings. They are one year old now. I think mama either moved on or got shot during the bear season last year. I haven't seen her.
Bear are perfectly happy in the wild, as long as they have their food source. They really don't want to deal with humans. They are a lazy creature, however. If they figure out it is easier to get food out of a trash can they will continue to do so. They learn fast.
We live in the woods, but there is getting to be to many bear in the area. The housing is starting to take over the woods. They have learned about trash cans. Some people are like the bear, lazy. They don't bother with taking proper care of their trash. They are eating well and having 3 or 4 cubs, whereas in the wood living on roots and such, they might have just 1.
You where talking about your feeders. I have a picture, on a disc somewhere, of a bear hanging on a rope to get to a feeder. The feeder was suspended between to trees.


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## dogbone

I found the pictures of the bear on the rope. How stong is the rope. Enjoy.


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## artmart

This is why hanging your food in trees is no longer allowed in California. With the massive amounts of people who traverse bear territory, they have learned to use human methods to still obtain their food. In these same areas, mama bears teach the cubs to go after the hanging food. If the rope is weak then the bear drops to the ground but doesn't fall far enough to get hurt and the reward of a bag of food is well worth their slight discomfort.

Again, I backpack and camp in bear country in most of the California National and state parks and I use bear lockers or a portable bear proof canister so that bears learn that there's food in there but they can't get to it. The key is they never become successful at getting to it.

My portable bear canister doubles as my chair, too. But, at night it gets stowed 50 to 100 feet away and just have to worry that the bear doesn't bat it too far away and down a hill. So far, good. I have been using mine for about 8 years.


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## dogbone

Bird feeders are illegal here during spring and summer. 

We use bear proof trash cans and keep them in the garage. The bear still wander through the yard to get to the next meal. They know when it's garbage day. The garbage is picked up early in the morning, so you either get up early or put it out the night before. Easy pickin's if you put it out at night.

They say that if attacked, lay on the ground in the fetal position and the bear will let you go. Hopefully I won't or anybody will have to try the theory out. I just make sure I have someone, I can out run, next to me when I take the pictures.:rotflmao1::smack-head: Check out my animal friend album.


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## woodster

Two of the most dangerous animals to hunt are the North American Bear and the African Leopard. Most game animals will run off when shot, but the unpredictability of these two are what legends are made of. I've seen Canadian Brown Bear shot in vitals and still have enough energy to come after you and Bear's can cover a 100 yards in seconds, they are fast afoot. It will usually take more than one or two rounds to bring him down. Another unpredictable animal is the South-East Wild Boar that can weigh as much as 1000 pounds, and they can be considered dangerous when angered.

1,180# Wild Boar
http://www.gopherplantation.com/boar_photos.htm


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## artmart

Folks, we are gonna scare the OP into never camping if there's bears around. Good camping techniques are always to be considered and no one (you or the bear) gets hurt. The stories in the news are of VERY RARE occurrences of an encounter going bad and you'll find that most of them brought it upon themselves by not knowing what to do. Sad but true - getting too close, surprising a bear or her bear cubs or "feeding them" - sounds like stupidity and ignorance to me. Remember if you survive your stupidity, it will most likely cause the death of this bear and for what? You go to where they live, they act like bears and you get them killed. Sound about right?

I have not hesitated to ask or teach others what they are doing wrong when I see it. If my safety is at stake you bet I'm gonna say something. I try and be diplomatic about it so they can see the error of their ways, but if they get stupid or aggressive, I will treat them like the bear I'm trying to avoid, by staying away and not hesitating to report them to the local constables and Rangers. They can either learn the easy cheap way from a peer, or they can learn the most expensive way by paying a very expensive fine or getting damage to their property - I've seen both. Their choice!


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## happiestcamper

Art is correct - just use common sense with the food and don't surprise them on a hike.

Here are some idiots that left food around their camp, which caused a bear to be be euthanized - 13-year-old recovering from bear attack - The Denver Post


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## dogbone

Bruiseviolet, you haven't been posting on the topic. I hope nothing I have said or any of use have said has changed your mind about camping. If it has, I apologize, for it was not my intention to do so.
Camping can be fun and a great experience for adults and children. As Art and I both said, with proper precautions and common sense you will have no problems. Respect the bear, proper food and trash storage are the main things.
The photo's I took were taken with my safety in mind. I was in my truck and in my house for most of them. I just wanted to show you some actual bear that come around all the time. There are a lot of bear in my area, in all the years, they have been nosing around, there hasn't been any problems, except garbage clean ups now and again. That can be addressed, as stated above, proper storage.
Go out and have a ball. Let us know how you made out.
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/bearfacts.htm Intresting web site about bear facts


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## bruiseviolet

*Had a blast camping*

Thanks. You didn't scare me =) Just have been busy. We went to a campground recommended by a friend, and found it was not a good fit for our family. So after setting up in 108 degree heat- we tore down the tents the next day and packed the car back up- and headed to a campground we've been to before. enjoyed the rest of our week there- despite the extremely hot weather. I will post a photo of our tent- since I haven't yet- My camera decided to quit working- so I was only able to get this one photo of the tent right after we had got it set up (at the first place we went to). Oh well, next time i'll have some of the family enjoying the campground we love!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## bruiseviolet

That rule only holds true for Grizzly bear. Black bears will not stop attacking if you play dead. =)


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## dogbone

bruiseviolet said:


> That rule only holds true for Grizzly bear. Black bears will not stop attacking if you play dead. =)


Thanks for that info. Hopefully I won't get myself into that position. We haven't seen the bear around lately. My neighbor stopped throwing seed out in the street. I better knock on wood. Although, my lab runs into the woods sometimes with his hair up. They might be there I just can't see them.
I'm glad you and your family had a good time. Get your camera fixed and put some photo's up, next time you go. I'm sure we would like to see them. Happy camping. 

Bob


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## silverz51

Hmmm.. Now I'm worried about bears. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to use caution and trust my luck. Since I have a truck tent, I can't park my car away from the campsite. Those pictures of the bear hanging on the rope to get the bird food do nothing to reassure me of safety by hanging the food up between trees. Are they attracted by rice or canned beans?

I wonder if I should get some sort of odor-proof strong container to put my victuals in and keep it away from the truck while I'm sleeping.. I wonder if I should take some sort of very bright strobe light and a very loud horn with me to frighten away any bear that might start getting in my tent.

I do have a 9mm but I'm afraid that using it to defend from a bear attack would just piss off the bear . Is there a pretty sure way to avoid attracting large, hungry wild critters to the campsite? (other than the obvious such as keeping food away)


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## artmart

This is why it's important to contact the local experts (rangers, staff) and ask their advice. You might find nothing to worry about, or the best procedure to use. Most places that are not as popular as Yosemite or Yellowstone have nothing to worry about and you are probably worried too much. The problem with very popular places is that there is an increase of ignorant people that don't become aware and it's these people that give bears a bad name.

Consider the millions of park visitors to ALL bear areas per year and if there are only one or two serious encounters you will find your odds just aren't worth the worry. Don't be ignorant and no one gets hurt. This applies to so many things not including chance bear encounters. You have more chance of getting into a vehicle accident than encountering a bear if you stay bear aware.


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## silverz51

dogbone said:


> Thanks for that info. Hopefully I won't get myself into that position. We haven't seen the bear around lately. My neighbor stopped throwing seed out in the street. I better knock on wood. Although, my lab runs into the woods sometimes with his hair up. They might be there I just can't see them.
> I'm glad you and your family had a good time. Get your camera fixed and put some photo's up, next time you go. I'm sure we would like to see them. Happy camping.
> 
> Bob


*
Bruiseviolet* is right. The advise in every bear info poster and sign I have seen in AZ, NM, KY, etc. say the same thing. "If you see a bear, don't approach it, Back away slowly, don't run away, talk loudly in low tones, make yourself look big (somehow) and finally, if the bear attacks you *Do not play dead. *and *Fight with everything you can, camera, binoculars, rocks, sticks or even your fists and feet. *Your chances of survival are better if you fight back.......


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## 04fxsts

I am not about to go anywhere there are critters who consider themselves higher on the "food chain" than I am without the appropiate size firearm. Jim.


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## silverz51

04fxsts said:


> I am not about to go anywhere there are critters who consider themselves higher on the "food chain" than I am without the appropiate size firearm. Jim.


I can identify with you Jim. However, the "appropriate size" firearm in may case was too inconvenient to carry and I was afraid that I would not be able to use it effectively. My friend offered to lend me a .44 magnum revolver, I tried it, etc. But in the end I did not want the responsibility for that massive piece. My 12 GA pump with slugs would also theoretically stop a large predator, but either weapon is illegal to carry while you are hiking in many places, and it would do little good stashed in the tent (where it could get stolen anyway). The spray seems to be the most effective deterrent for animal attacks. I guess if I was in Alaska or other places where firearms are allowed, I'd carry a big pistol or rifle as well as the spray.


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## JoeS

I wonder if you can carry a firearm if you only had non-lethal ammo. the shock of getting hit might give you enough time to get away.


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## artmart

If I carried a weapon I wouldn't aim it at the animal. They don't like the noise, so if you fire aim high. If you fire the weapon and hit the bear, they'll forget about the noise and defend itself and stop what's causing the pain - YOU. That's when the trouble starts.

I think it's best to fire in the air repeatedly, then all the animal has to contend with is the infernal noise that it can easily walk away from. Most problems occur when you put an animal in defense mode, then all bets are off. Don't forget to remove the silencer.


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## silverz51

First of all, I am no expert in bears or any other animal, nor an expert in firearms, sprays, knives or even clubs. All know are theories based on other people's accounts (which may be based on theories and suppositions).
Anyway, I've talked with a number of people who've had encounters with bears and they say "no problems, the bears are not aggressive, etc." Of course, try telling that to the hikers that have been mauled or killed by bears and mountain lions over the last few months....

Like Art says, probably discharging a loud gun into the air or the ground (where it's safe), will probably tend to scare them off (and you still have the weapon for last resort use) A lot of people have used the spray successfully to repel charges by bears, mountain lions, and other dangerous animals (moose, elk, bison, dogs, etc.). The only animals I've killed with a gun were some black birds and snakes until I realized what I was doing. I have not intentionally harmed any animals (except some insects) since then, about 40 years ago. I have great doubts of my capacity to kill even a charging bear because I'm just not trained to shoot to kill... That is why I chose not to carry a weapon for defense against animals.

I've read about people who've survived lion and bear attacks. Some managed to kill or wound the predator others were rescued by other people. They all said that the animals' strength and will to live was "like 10 men" (from a report of a mt. Lion on a woman bicyclist in CA). I doubt that even if I filled it full of 9mm hollow points, the bear or lion would probably maul me severely if not kill me unless I got a very luck shot to the heart, brain or lungs. I leave the guns to hunters or other experienced people.


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## artmart

Yup, check that.. fire into the ground away from everyone, and hope nothing ricochets... and if using blanks aim anywhere you want.

Or do like I do. Don't carry a gun at all and leave it to Mother Nature and fate whether I survive visiting where bear's live. It's only fair.


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## Jaygee

In the Smokey mountains the rangers tell you to make as much noise as possible to scare away the black bears. Noise such as banging pans together and shouting. But, do not challenge the bear by approaching it or moving toward it quickly in any manner.

And I'm sure you have all heard the joke that to avoid bears attacking you, you should wear a clown suit. Bears won't eat you because clowns taste funny. (I know, GROAN) Sorry. The ranger told us that joke too.


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## artmart

Here in the Sierras, banging pots doesn't work anymore... the bears over here have learned to treat this like a dinner bell, since they know banging pots mean there's food close by. I guess it's a regional thing. The rangers over here tell us to make noise that is NOT food related. Jumping up and down, grouping together and making lots of noise. Now dressing like clowns sounds like a great idea. Now if I can get a clown suit that is thermal and made of Gore-Tex, I think you might have something there.

Hopefully Bears in the Smokey mountains don't learn that from the Western bears. We'll try and keep our bears over here and you try and keep your bears over there. What it actually means is that the people over in your area are smarter and have kept the bears clueless and over here in the west, we have taught them all the wrong stuff!


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## hideout

nothing like a fall bear tag,it solves my problems of intruding black bears,and fills my freezer with some jucy steaks.but if eating the bear does not fit your fancy,then bring along a 12 guage,and fill the bears backside with rock salt,wont do him in but will sting quite alot:thumbup1:


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## dogbone

Pots, pans and even air horns don't phase them in Jersey anymore. They look at you and go back to what they were doing. They got use to it.
I don't know about rock salt. Might just p... them off and get you arrested.
I took out the recycling the other night and came across a bear. He looked at me and I at him. I backed off and took the stuff out in the morning. There are so many bear by us now, that we are getting familiar with each other. We get to see at least one a day, sounds like a vitamin. They have not been aggressive, at least not yet, but need to be respected, especially with cubs around.


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## Jaygee

Wow! Well I hope most of the bear around here are still a little timid. Here is an article of interest. Read the whole thing, don't quit after the scary part.
Smoky Mountains Information: Your Smokies: Black Bear Attacks Great Smoky Mountains National Park Visitor on Popular Hiking Trail as Horrified Crowd Watches Helpless in Disbelief.
The rangers are pretty strict here. A year or so ago I accidently left a cooler out while I made a very short restroom trip. It had nothing more than a handfull of grapes in it but cost me about 80 bucks. I was careful before but am even more careful after my expensive lesson.


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## artmart

You should have camped near me and my buddies. We waste no time reminding careless neighbor campers when they need to comply with rules. At least we won't fine you, but I can't guarantee you'd like to hear it from us.

I was awoken from a nice camping sleep when I got sniffed by a bear in my face only one time in my life. We found out that some campers near by were feeding it. Ever since then I do not hesitate to tell my camping neighbors to be compliant. Their carelessness doesn't just affect them, it affects everyone!

I think you got off cheap at $80. Where I camp the fines are from $250 to $2,000 not including the damage to your personal property you will experience. I'm glad you think that was an expensive lesson. But wouldn't following the guidelines be so much cheaper?

I appreciate you posting your story, but it's too bad it had to cost you $80 to learn the lesson. I hope you still look forward to getting out there and keeping it safe, fun and beautiful now that you are so much smarter.


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## Jaygee

I said it was an accident not a way of life. I was and am aware of the consequences of feeding bears. I forgot the cooler and was gone for no more than 3-5 minutes. 

Thanks for the scolding if that's what it was, I'll let you know when I need another.


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## artmart

Not a scolding.. that's not necessary since it cost you $80 to learn what you learned. My apologies, but I was just leaving my stories and what others' carelessness can almost cost. Getting my face sniffed by a bear due to some other person's actions that only takes seconds is just an example that 3-5 minutes could have resulted in much more.

I had to learn some things the hard way but attention to wildlife is more a priority in my mind than others and important since lives of all concerned have been involved. I'm sure there are some things I've done that would bother you more than they would bother me.

Forgive me for not acknowledging your regret and that you were able to learn from this.


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## Jaygee

I quit. Not worth it.


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