# Renovation of my 5th wheel camper...



## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

well, posted my introduction here: new to Camper Community, not to VerticleScope Forums
i didn't get any responses or anything, perhaps i am in the wrong forum, or something...

anyway, i am planning to use solar to maintain the battery/s for my camper, in addition to the battery charger. i currently have a 40A EPEver MPPT charge controller, and a single 100W panel.
I still have yet to renovate the power system in the camper, so i haven't mounted the solar panel yet. but i am hesitant to make holes in the roof... i was thinking about making something like a ladder rack that attaches with screws to the sides of the camper, and just sits on the top (with protective pads...), but i am still unsure.
the cable entry points i can make in the roof, as the cable gland box is a low-stress point (low wind or movement stress). i do plan to have more than one panel.

for heavy charging, if needed, i have a 100A PowerMax PM3-100, i think it is. it is a 3-stage charger. according to the manual, it can be left on, but not unattended... seems a little contradictory...

i have purchased a new AC/DC distribution panel. 50A AC, and supposedly 100A DC. (i like a lot of power available, for future needs...)

as said in my introduction, i think, i will be upgrading the AC to 50A power.

here are my power needs:
AC:
A/C-heat pump (13,500btu).
microwave oven.
a few LED recessed lights (already have on hand)
lots of audio equipment.

DC:
all lights, other than some AC high power LED.
furnace.
security alarm.


i thought i would keep the campers bathroom, but the tanks have leaks, so i will renovate the bathroom to take a porta-potty, i guess. and the fridge isn't worth saving. i will be using a 12V plug-in cooler or a 12V DC/120V AC mobile fridge.
~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

travis.farmer said:


> here are my power needs:
> AC:
> A/C-heat pump (13,500btu).


found a little about my A/C. i don't think it is a heat-pump A/C, but just a A/C with a heater element.
Emerson Quiet Kool 13,500btu.
also, it seems it needs about 17 - 20A for the A/C! so in the future, i will be upgrading to a smaller, more power efficient unit.

as this camper is nearing end-of-life for most of the appliances, and plumbing, i don't feel so bad gutting it out for my needs. not only will i have a place to record music, in a mobile way, but i can use it as a test platform for experimenting with solar power, as i still need 12V power for the lights and the propane furnace.

sort of outside the scope of the topic title, but i also plan on re-siding this camper. trying to get rid of the ribbed aluminum, and either replace with fiberglass, or custom bent flat aluminum siding, using the trim-coil stock i use in carpentry, possibly... (have a bunch of white on hand)

i have yet to set eyes on the roof, but i plan i may (hope i don't have to) lay a new rubber-roof down. i want no leaks, and better appearance.

today i started cleaning out all the stuff i don't need, like the cabinet doors and drawers, and will hopefully start the gut-out tomorrow. the previous owner started some, but i need most all of it gone, before i start re-building.

i understand weight is an issue when building, so i was thinking of using steel-studs for any new walls, as they are lighter than wood, and fairly common to buy. there will be some wood construction, but i will try to be weight sparing. walls will just be 1/4 ply paneling, for sheathing. cabinets and other furniture will be built of a frame, with 1/4 panels in the center, like a cabinet door may be made, but for the side panels as well. as i am a carpenter by trade, this should be easy to construct, once i have a plan. the heaviest part will be the desk top, that i plan to use 3/4 inch birch ply, with a polyurethane finish.
my heaviest equipment is my 32 channel mixer board, so that is where the desk will be strongest. the mixer will be built in, so camper travel should not bother it. my workstation computer may simply be a laptop computer, for simplicity, though it would limit future hardware expansion...
the furnace location may pose an issue, but i think i can work around it by building a resting bench over it (with a padded top). access under the bench would be as simple as removing the pad and lifting the top.
the tanks, for my uses, would be useless to save (they leak anyway...), so if i can, i may just drop them out for weight savings, maybe...

back on the topic of this post, electrical...
i received today the 50A power inlet, and tomorrow i should receive the power distribution panel.  so i can work on getting those located. probably depends on how far the wire i have will reach (6/4 AWG, should be 4/4 AWG, but i couldn't afford that right now, and i had the 6/4 on hand). i hope to have the inlet near the original location, or right by the furnace, if possible, as that is where the power distribution panel is going, now.

anyway, wanted to update, in case anybody want's to follow along, or chime in with advice.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

it occurred to me i may want to do some actual camping with my camper...
this can still be done, fairly easily. it may not be all the camper comforts, like a full-size bed, kitchen, fridge, etc... but if the previously mentioned "resting bench" is more of a bed/bench combo, i could easily toss a sleeping bag on it, load up a cooler, pack a camp-stove for outdoor cooking, and keep the porta-potty idea, and the studio becomes a camper.  a little more "roughing-it" than a full-luxury camper, but a few more extra comforts than a tent.  hey, camping is what you make it, right?

on the nature of power... i was thinking too about eventually getting a generator, so i would not have to restrict myself to RV parks with 50A service. thinking of saving up for the HFT Predator 9500W inverter generator, @ $1,999. it has a 120/240V 30A connector, so i could get an adapter to plug it in. i know it isn't a Honda generator... but i can't afford Honda generators 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

pulled out the non-working fridge this morning. what a PITA that was, but glad i did. it had to go, and i wouldn't have noticed the fridge roof vent cover was missing, otherwise... i am so glad for aluminum framed walls! only rot is the paneling, and that can be replaced! i used a product from 3M called All Weather Flashing Tape to make a temporary "cover" for the vent. i will do it properly (or my version of it) some other time, when i have some aluminum out that i am working with. the roof itself, though a little rippled, looked free of leaks, but i hope to re-rubber it at some point in the future. then i can do away with things like the TV antenna, fridge roof vent, and so forth.
this afternoon, after removing the scary looking stove, i will be getting rather friendly with a saws-all. 
everything must go, aside for necessary wires, of coarse...
any appliances i pull out, if there is anybody in the area that needs parts, you are welcome to any and all. free, as i don't think there is much value in much of it. the fridge will be a pain to get rid of.

one thing i like about doing demo on the inside of a camper, the cabinetry is just light frames, and thin panels for weight savings. i will try my best to build back as light as i can, as i have only got a half-ton truck, so the less weight, the better (the chevy dealership has assured me the tow capacity is around 12K, and the trailer is marked as 7K).

it is a bit aggravating, seems like everything i get into with this camper, reveals some new horror. so far, only one mummified critter found...

i am leaning toward keeping the bedroom somewhat intact. i was going to make it storage, but with a bit of work, and a new mattress, and it can be used. will have to figure out why the bedroom A/C vent doesn't blow... and i hope it has nothing to do with a critter.

without much involvement from others, i rather feel like i am talking to myself here...  i don't mind just blogging, if others find it interesting to read, but... 

something i haven't covered yet. what am i going to do with the LP gas system. i need it for the furnace, but nothing else. so i will likely just cap off the gas line after the furnace, or just run a copper line direct from the regulators (will be new) to the furnace. at some point i need to test the furnace for operation though. i have a diesel heater available as a backup, but i would prefer the LP furnace, if it works.
so i need to cap off all the unused gas lines, and power the furnace, just to see if it runs and makes heat, without being a flame-thrower is either direction. i will have a LP gas, CO, and a smoke detector handy for the test, when i am ready. once i am assured it functions, i will pull the burn tube out and give it a good cleaning... actually, i will do that first, for safety. they like to collect a pile of rust. my old camper furnace made good heat, but the burn tube turned out to be dead. probably why it made so much heat... 

today, i plan on trying to tackle everything in the living room/kitchen. i will tackle the bathroom and bedroom another day.

anyway, time for lunch, then back at it.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

tore out most of the kitchen, and what did i find? a mystery electric water heater... and a very rotten floor... 
kind of expected, but not to the extent i found... so once i finish tearing out the kitchen (another day, i am beat), i will need to rip up the floor and replace it... at least i will know it is good then, but still... with the cost of materials, i wasn't expecting most of a new floor.
the existing electrical, i had to just snip wires... i will have to use my wire tracer and tone them out later. some can be eliminated anyway. water pump... gone. stove hood... gone. fridge... gone. the remainder of the 12V should be simple to trace, and i left plenty of wire to splice into. on the 120V side, i snipped at the distribution box, so there should be enough wire to junction out and run to the new distribution panel.

i had intended on having the distribution panel under the couch, but i think that would look kinda ugly. so back to the combo bathroom/utility room plan. bathroom on one side, and utility wall on the other. the bedroom will be defined with a short double-bi-fold door that i will be building. i want it somewhat loose so air can flow for heat and A/C. for the same reason, i will be installing a louvered vent in the pocket door. the pocket door will be lockable, to slow down the riff-raff, when i am recording clients. 
the living room will become my vocal recording booth. my plan is to use a RV couch/bed, and have it surround-able by a heavy curtain, floor to ceiling, for sound canceling. but made so i can put it away, and have a living room.
there will be no kitchen, to speak of. it will be my workstation, as mentioned. but i am waiting until the inside of the camper is a blank-slate before i start to design that. it may even change between now and then. i could possibly move it to the living room...

but i have reduced my priorities from my Tax Return budget down to, i hope, a leak-free blank slate, with working power and A/C. that includes repairing the bedroom. i don't expect to be able to save the whole bedroom, as i want to remove the bed frame, and just have a air-mattress, or pad on the floor, to make it simpler. i can then make some covered side boxes to store clothing in. or just secure some wire baskets to the floor 

my utility wall will likely be made of 3/4 plywood, so i can organize my various power meters, solar charge controller, power distribution panel, and so forth... actually, maybe just a 1/4 inch plywood panel, with cabinets around it would look nice. it is easier to mount in 1/4 plywood...

i seem to be rambling on... does anybody care? not much activity around here.  several reads of my post though...

i will try to do better about updating with pictures... so far there is nothing impressive to take a picture of, but i really should document everything. if nothing else, so you all will have something to look at, and not just read about. i have a YouTube channel... could be possible to Vlog my progress, if that is something you all would be interested in. i wouldn't be able to Vlog while i work, but i can take video of my updates, and maybe some commentary, if i can get my camera gear sorted out.
comments? suggestions? anything???

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

forgot to bring out my digital camcorder, and my phone battery is dead... so while my phone charges, a quick update.

kitchen is almost gone (torn out). the wall paneling is in pretty bad shape behind it, as well as behind the fridge (due to the missing vent lid).
anyway, back to work. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

This is an overall, somewhat of what was the kitchen. to the right was a dinette, before i bought it, that was torn out. on the right, was a sink, stove, and fridge. the wires hanging down went behind the fridge.








under the sink is pretty rotten. particle-board... so replacing that is a must.








under the stove is/was the power inlet. water leaked in the inlet door and rotted the floor. the new inlet is a detachable 50A, with a rain-guard sort of protection.








the bedroom will likely get a set of new doors on the cabinets, the bed frame is coming out in favor of a air mattress on the floor. makes it more simple to replace if needed. just roll up the old, and un-roll the new. then add some air... 

overall, i want click-in laminate flooring. even under the bed. wall and ceiling paneling will be replaced as needed. the knee-wall before the bedroom, where it steps up over the 5th-wheel part, will have bead-board, like a cheap MDF wainscotting, on the face of it. just to add a little bit of class to a run-down camper. 
the "door" between the bathroom/utility room, as said will be a pair of bi-fold doors, made to match the cabinet doors (pine frames, with 1/4 inch panel in the center, or perhaps more bead-board in center). the bedroom will be painted, as well as the bedroom and utility cabinets.

after taking the pictures (i took a video too, but i don't think the sound came out...), i proceeded to remove the tub. and guess what i found under it? i bet you will never guess... i found the biggest mouse nest i have seen packed into a space in my life! i decided to call it done for the day there. i will evict any residence, living or dead, tomorrow. i sprayed it heavy with air freshener, and closed up. 







i am debating on a plan modification to the bathroom/utility room cabinets. the bathroom is a tad smaller than i thought, and one of the cabinets in there is the hanging-clothes closet. i don't need both sides. being on the Autism spectrum, i have no use for a significant-other... so i will construct a wall between the two sides, and use the left for power/utility. i will construct a hinged panel for the power gauges (i like gauges...). the power distribution panel will be below the cabinet, where the above-depicted vanity (to be torn out) is. there, like the above cabinet, i will make a vented (top and bottom) panel to mount the power distribution panel. the reason i like vented panels is this. air goes in, smoke comes out (if there is a fire). if smoke comes out, the smoke detectors go off and save my life. if the space is closed in, the smoke stays in and i burn up, or die from the much slower accumulating CO that leaks out.
so power distribution down low, gauges and solar monitor up at eye-level. batteries, by the way, will be in the battery compartment under the 5th wheel section. it is already vented (i may solar power-vent it...), and i will seal it off better from the human-side of the wall. my 100A battery charger/converter (PowerMax PM3-100) needs vented air, so it will likely go down with the batteries. it will be circuit-breaker protected from the batteries, and rest of camper (as will each battery). that way, the only wires between the battery compartment and the human compartment with be a single pair for 12V. my battery voltage/current meter is semi-wireless, in that it only needs power at each end. the communication is wireless. that too will be in the battery compartment, between the battery bank, and everything else (negative-side current sensing).

now, i love working with Arduino electronic micro-controllers, so at some point i will likely re-do the power monitoring to allow an Arduino to monitor as well. may as well include some of my hobbies to make it all fun.  would be neat to be able to monitor all power functions right from anywhere in the camper. 

anyway, before i have to start naming chapters here...

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Trying my phone for wider-angle pictures.







in the bathroom/utility room, i removed the vanity and toilet. there was a panel behind the vanity that i removed out of curiosity.behind it, i found enough room for the solar charge controller.  the gauges and such won't be at eye-level, but i can still mount the remote display for the solar controller high enough to read. the AC gauges (volts and amps) are mainly for diagnostic, and power usage info.








it is raining, so the demo and bedroom mattress ended up in the back of the camper.

with all the demolition being almost done, it is exciting to see the empty spaces, and being able to plan for the building portion. a bit of fresh paneling, here and there, some paint, some flooring, and some furniture built... sounds easy... if only it wasn't so expensive, with material still being so pricey.
unfortunately there is so many staples poking through from the other side of the wall paneling... looks like heck... i will be adding extra sound insulation, so most of the walls will be built in a bit. add some paint to that... i can see it all now, and it looks far better than it does right now. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

did a little "fun work" this afternoon, to take the stress off of finding more rot, everywhere i turn.
i ran 4awg wire from the battery compartment, into the utility section, inside the cabinet. i crimped on lugs with my hydraulic cable crimper (i love it!). plain lugs at the battery, with a disconnect on the positive side (50A, will upgrade to a 100A later), then into my fuse distribution panel. i also ran a 4awg wire out to later connect to the charger, from the fuse panel, using the manual designated charger connection. now, the circuit it protected by two max30A listed fuses, so this limits the charging to about 60A, and i am fine with that, if the system doesn't keep blowing the fuses. i hope 2 batteries will not charge at more than 60A...
if i need to, i can run direct from the charger to the battery, through a 100A breaker.

i was disappointed that the listed as 100A DC distribution panel was only rated for 50A, but with my needs, i really hope i don't draw more than 50A.
i was expecting a lot of DC load, as the first camper i had picked out had 2 slide-outs, but i bought this one instead. i already had the 100A charger ordered (it was on sale at the time for $82!) no slide-outs in this one (they would probably not work, and leak, if it did...  ).

with the lower amps, i can actually run my DC panel through my solar (MPPT) charge controller, as it has a 40A rating for the battery and load sides. should be enough to run a 12V furnace, and some LED lighting... and maybe an onboard stereo, if i so choose.

i have not tied in any of the AC circuits yet, to the distribution panel, as i have not traced them out yet, nor do i have the junction box for splicing the circuits properly. i also have not installed the AC power inlet yet. it is raining, and i didn't feel like trying to seal around a hole in the rain. tomorrow is supposed to be better. i need to pick up a 50A double breaker anyway. though i may have one in my stash, somewhere. at least one good enough to test things with. i will replace with a new one anyway.

i have decided to not run the DC ground into the fuse panel. it does not have any LED blown-fuse indicators, so i have only got to tie it to frame ground, and i believe the frame-ground also ties to the AC earth-ground. so i will need to provision for that. i will likely just find a good frame-ground point, and tie it to both the common load-side ground, and the AC earth-ground.

electric brakes: the breakaway system requires a battery source. i could tie into my camper batteries, but i want it to be standalone. i have a small lawn-tractor battery that i can wire to the frame-ground, trailer-light-ground (if not the same, but they should be). the positive then routes to the breakaway-switch, and then to the trailer brakes wire. i will install a dual-battery isolation charging diode between the vehicle charge line, and the brakes battery. perhaps a small solar panel too, to maintain it. maybe...
i should install a small voltage monitor to check the battery now and then, in case i have to throw a charger on it, or something. i could even install a battery maintainer between the camper AC, and the brakes battery...
i like to make things complicated... have you noticed yet? 

the wiring is not yet cast in stone, so i can still change it. but i think a plan is coming together...

oh, now that i have nicely crimped 4awg wires... the solar charge controller only accepts up to 6awg or maybe only 8awg wire. so most of what i just did was all for not...  🤦‍♂️ i don't think i even have any 8awg wire, other than the AC supply wire i have... a little stiff to work with, but maybe. i think it is actually 6awg though.
so off to eBay to source out some 8awg wire... no local store has 8awg, except maybe Wal-Mart in the Car audio amplifier section. could still work, in a pinch.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Just uploaded my initial tour of the camper to YouTube.




i must say, being my first time talking on my channel, i never noticed my accent before this video... 
audio quality is a little poor, but maybe better next time (cheap mic).

Hope it gives you all a little better view of what i am working with. it looks bad, but i am in the demo phase on a 1989 camper, so it is going to look bad. i hope to do some video updates as i get some better progression. i will keep up with the photo updates as well.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

found something interesting... 12V lights are all on the same circuit, as well as the furnace.
found something less interesting... furnace motor has bad bearings.
so slight bump in the road for heat. i have a diesel heater i can install, but the point is, i was counting on the furnace working.
the problem with using the diesel heater, is i may actually need 2 of them. one for the bedroom area, and one for the rest. i don't think one heater will handle the entire 25 foot camper.
but, right this instant, i don't need heat anyway. it will be built in, but i don't need it right now, as far as worrying about it. what i will do is just keep a location in mind.

i still have a little cabinetry in the remainder of the living room to remove, as well as, apparently, the furnace. unless i can get the bearings lubed somehow... may be best to just replace it, if i can find a new one... just found some new ones on eBay. may put on my TODO list, when i have the money.

not sure if i am just running out of steam, or money. but i am slowing a bit. i think all the rot, and failing furnace, has me burned out. not giving up, just feeling overwhelmed.

i did manage to get the lights working off battery power, and the battery is charging right now, off an extension cord to the charger. i have the solar charger in place, but i have no mounted solar panels yet, as i don't have any way yet to get the solar wires from the inside to the outside, without leaking... it is on my list, though.

so, in summery, what is still good on this camper? the frame, and wall frame, and roof frame are all good. the roof doesn't seem to leak (now). some of the lights work great (the LED lights the previous owner replaced). the furnace turns up, but no gas, so no heat. the old deep-cycle battery i had on hand seems to be taking a charge well.

let me break down some things i need to do, and what i need to do them.

*AC electrical:*
need to install and wire-in inlet.
need to mount distribution panel.
have: 50A twist-lock inlet, 6AWG wire for inlet to panel, 50A cable (when delivered), 50A to two 30A Y-adapter, one 30A to 15A adapter, distribution panel.
need: 50A double breaker, other breakers, circuit wire 12AWG & 10AWG (A/C)

*DC electrical:*

have: one old battery, unprotected battery disconnect, some 4AWG wire and crimp lugs, solar MPPT charger (EPEver Tracer 40A), AC to DC charger (PowerMax PM3-100), one 100W mono solar panel.
need: ground busbar (have one 3-position in distribution panel), multi-pack of fuses, 12AWG wire (lights), 10AWG wire (Furnace), circuit breaker protected battery disconnect, solar power inlet glands.
*
Roof:*
seems leak-free, but at some point i may re-rubber the roof to be sure.

*Siding:*
it is UGLY... and has some holes (currently with caulking in them to prevent further damage.
i would LOVE to be able to re-side this camper with smooth fiberglass, and re-seal all the windows, and remove un-needed hatches, and water inlets.

*Tires:*
one new, 3 are good.
*
Brakes:*
supposedly good, but i want to re-do the break-away system.

*Trailer Lights:*
no idea what current state they are in...

*A/C:*
works, but needs to be re-tied in to new distribution panel.

*Heat:*
fix or replace furnace.

this is just a start...

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

installed the 50A AC power inlet, used 6awg wire to the panel. i only had a 40A breaker on hand for the panel master, but it will do fine until i am able to get a 50A double pole breaker.
also wired in the battery charger to the AC power... though i am still waiting for the power inlet cord to arrive (today, supposedly), so i can only meter out the connections to test them.

AC volt meters arrived today, so i can get those installed, i hope. AC amp meters arrive, who knows when. but i suspect those are easy to add later. they use current sense coils around the wire, so i have only to pull the red and black source wires out, slip the coils over, and reconnect the wires back in place. no idea if they require power, or if they source directly from the current sense coils. they are analog meters, so i suspect they do just that. if not, i will tie them to the same power sources as the volt meters.

AC power for the A/C will be run when i figure out what clipped wire supplies it, and what one goes nowhere now (to be traced). wire will be run to a junction, with wiremold.
new outlet power will also be run in wiremold. mainly to save from having to build a wire channel, and i may have to do that anyway. somehow i need to run 12V DC power to lighting too, so i may just build a wire channel down near the floor, like an oversized (slightly) baseboard. it will be made removable for future add-ons.

later today, i "hope" to tear out the little bit of remaining cabinetry, and the remainder of the couch frame around the furnace. i will pull the furnace for one of two reasons. either to try and fix the one i have, once it is pulled. or to simply replace it with a newer, less noisy model (the likely choice).
i also have some other stuff i need to do, like posting some items for sale, so i can make a little money to continue working on the camper. i do work for a living, as a carpenter, but i don't make money as fast as this camper seems to be using it. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

well, the humidity came up, and so did the temperature... so rather than hot tear-out, i did a little more electrical, before calling it a day early.
i installed the AC volt gauges, and then i traced some wires with a tone-tracing tool (not to be used on LIVE circuits!!!). i found some dead-ends, and pilled the wires back through. i also discovered an outside outlet i didn't realize was there. but more importantly, i found the A/C power wire.

so here is my plan, for some day. outside outlet will be on a 15A breaker, all on it's own (so i can turn it off when not in use, and GFCI it). the A/C will be on a 20A breaker, as per the tag on the A/C, and will be on it's own breaker as well. all other outlets will be on one circuit, on a 20A breaker.

load balancing will be as such: pole-1 will power A/C. pole-2 will power everything else.
A/C takes a lot, and is least necessary, year-round. the rest can run on a 15A extension cord adapter, if necessary. and i have a 50A to two 30A Y adapter, and a 30A to 15A adapter as well. so when adapted, A/C on a 30A, and everything else can run on 15A. in theory, i could run it all on a single pole of the 50A, but why make things simple...  besides, my home plug-in will only really be 30A 240V (2-pole 120v), until i can afford better than 10awg wire out to the plug-in. it will be a 30A breaker in the main panel.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

picked up a used Onan Microquiet 4000 GenSet for my camper. needs a little work, but i only paid $100 for it. my plan is to build a firewall-compartment where the shower used to be, and install the generator there. i will have to also install a fuel tank (gasoline), and i will likely make a compartment above the GenSet, with a firewall in between, for the fuel tank. likely a fuel-cell.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

on my new-to-me Onan genset, it would seem the seller was correct, that it needs a new control board...
it is getting fuel, power, but spark is weak and intermittent, suggesting either a bad coil, or bad board driving the coil. i had it firing now and then last night, but now, not a single fire. so i will start saving for a new board. one from Flight Systems seems a bit more reasonable than an Onan one (300-5046).

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Started installing my 5th-wheel hitch today. man what a PITA! and i am not done yet. the frame portion is done, but i still have to put together the head.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Got the hitch finished! well, except for the electrical extension kit...
did my first hitch-up, and was surprised that the height was already just about good, so it lifted and locked right in. what a process to remember though:

open the jaws of the 5th-wheel (swing hitch arm up, and pull out to lock the jaws out)
slide my Thule track-rac forward (will slide right off when i actually haul the camper)
unlock my king-pin anti-theft lock
lower the tailgate
back up to the king-pin
set the camper at the correct height
back under and lift the camper onto the hitch until it latches into the hitch
pull on the camper a bit to make sure it is locked in
swing the hitch arm down to lock it
plug in the electrical and connect the breakaway switch
raise the tailgate
raise the landing-gear
remove chocks from between wheels
and it is ready to go.

and that list is not exactly opposite of unhitching either:

lower tailgate.
lower landing gear until load is off hitch just a bit
unhook electrical and breakaway switch
put chocks between wheels
back up a little, just enough to take pressure off hitch slide
swing hitch arm up, and pull out, and swing back down again to lock open
carefully drive out from under king-pin
...and so on...

i am sure those of you with a 5th-wheel know how to do it, and maybe i didn't do it correctly, but that is what i did after reading the manual once. 
one thing i didn't do was grease the hitch-plate. but in my defense, i wasn't really going anywhere.
so i plan on connecting up the wiring extension kit after lunch, and seeing what else i need to do to tidy things up... like finding some place for my spare tire when the hitch is in place... (gotta get my spare tire winch fixed...)

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

I have discovered that most of the trailering lights no longer work on my camper... this is an issue.
the plan to resolve is to remove the interior paneling, and find all the lighting issues, and fix them. should be much easier at that point. i suspect the issue is the connections are likely just poor contact, or dead bulbs. i would like to replace all with LED, but first i need to find out what works, and what does not.

I had intended to replace the flooring this weekend, but i forgot and bought a generator fuel tank, and generator compartment door, and therefore ran out of money this week... 
I have some items up for sale to raise money, and also my tax refund that still has not arrived... so i am not flat broke (i work, too  ) just waiting on that money in order to buy some big items for the camper...

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Having just purchased a fuel tank and compartment door for my RV Onan GenSet, it would seem the starter is on it's way out, and i think the compression is rather low. it has good spark, and i think it is getting fuel, as the exhaust smells a little of gasoline. but compression, i don't know. i can hardly get to the spark-plug, but i will try my compression tester tomorrow.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

tore out some paneling that was in bad shape, and to my joyous surprise, no rot behind it!!! 
tore out some ceiling paneling too, and the roof looks in good shape. i thought it was rubber over wood paneling, but it is rubber over aluminum, so the ripples are from the expansion of the aluminum, not rotten paneling! 
i put the spare battery for the generator on to charge, so i can try some more troubleshooting with that this afternoon. like a compression test. bad compression means i scrap the generator and use a portable. good compression means i can move forward with it.
pretty quick, i have GOT to vacuum the camper out, now that the floor is covered with mouse "sprinkles". and no, i don't mean cute mouse shaped sprinkles to go on top of your ice cream... 
the above "sprinkles" are also why i didn't do a photo update, as nobody want's to see that.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

all, or mostly vacuumed up. the paneling in the wall, shown center-line, is torn out, showing the aluminum wall studs, and Styrofoam insulation. both looking in good shape.








ceiling rafters also in good shape, and also aluminum.
A/C cover remover to protect when i pulled down the paneling.








overview of electrical built-in. paneling that the power distribution is in is not yet mounted, so that i can finish running wires (same reason paneling was removed in the main part of the camper).








close-up of power panel. only shows voltage on one leg of the 50A connection as my 50A to 30A adapter is a 30A Y adapter (one 30A plug for each 50A leg), and only one leg was plugged in at the time, to an extension cord.

so, plans moving forward: i need to install AC and DC lighting in the ceiling. AC lighting is for more efficient lighting when connected to shore-power, to save on battery power. once the wires are run, then i can re-insulate the ceiling, and install new paneling, making sure to make holes for lighting in advance, to avoid punching the roof with the hole-saw.
the walls will be paneled in once i get the trailering wires sorted out. perhaps it is just a bad ground somewhere...

there will be a portion of my camper that is only music recording studio. perhaps the back of the camper. because once i install my 32 channel mixer in place, it will not be moved. it is heavy... and hard to handle. i will build it into a desk to keep it from moving about. i may build a cover over the top for protection.
the rest of the main camper section will be dual purpose camper space, and vocal recording space. this will be sound insulated with two or more layers of moving blankets hung from a frame on the ceiling. that way i can have quiet space for recording vocals, and take down the blankets when not recording. this space will contain an RV fold out couch/bed, and a fold up/down table, somewhere.

the generator i spoke of, when i get it working, will go into a to-be-built compartment where the shower used to be. the floor is raised there, so i will sink the compartment down to the frame for secure mounting. this compartment will be firewall protected (steel liner). the fuel tank will be in a separate section above the generator. i will make a liner that is fuel proof, that drains to the ground under the camper. in the event of a fuel leak, i will notice the leaking, and fix it. not very EPA friendly, but i don't know of a better way to funnel leaks out of the camper, and not have it go on the ground. my fuel cell is 10 gallons, and will have a fuel shut-off installed for when not in use, and the vent will vent to outside air. not yet sure how to fill the tank yet, without opening it inside the camper... i will likely have a filler neck made up so i can fill from the outside.

one gripe i have about the pocket door between the main section and the utility/bedroom section... the sliders don't work for crap. i was going to use it, but i think i will make a door, and install a RV exterior door paddle latch on it. make it a swing door, instead of a slider. out-swing, into the main section.

it is pouring rain, so i have time now to do some writing and planning.  i may have had an extra cup of coffee  too, can you tell?
anyway, should give you all something to read about, if you choose. and if you feel like commenting, or offering advice, please do. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

so, just finally got my taxes back from the accountant... (yes, they are a tad slow...), and i am getting back quite a bit more than i thought! so it looks like a new camper furnace will be in my near future. 
thinking of going with a Suburban SF35Q. should be better than the screaming banshee furnace i have now. i tried oiling it, and no help. i think the bearings/bushings are sealed.

anyway, hopefully some news of some construction coming soon. 

~Travis


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## Oldmaninthewoods (Jan 15, 2018)

I installed solar on my 5th wheel some years ago. First thing is your going to have to have a huge battery bank to run your AC for any length of time and a larger inverter. Make sure the one you install has soft start. Most people use Trojan batteries but I used Crown batteries. They lasted for several years and they worked well. I mounted the panels on the roof without a problem. Just educate yourself on the right tools and products to use and how to use them. Second, an RV furnace is a gas hog. I would look at alternatives. I uses separate bottles and a buddy heater. I've seen people use a small wood heater too. I wish you much success on your camper rebuild. Here's a good source of info for solar HandyBob's Blog


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Oldmaninthewoods said:


> I installed solar on my 5th wheel some years ago. First thing is your going to have to have a huge battery bank to run your AC for any length of time and a larger inverter. Make sure the one you install has soft start. Most people use Trojan batteries but I used Crown batteries. They lasted for several years and they worked well. I mounted the panels on the roof without a problem. Just educate yourself on the right tools and products to use and how to use them. Second, an RV furnace is a gas hog. I would look at alternatives. I uses separate bottles and a buddy heater. I've seen people use a small wood heater too. I wish you much success on your camper rebuild. Here's a good source of info for solar HandyBob's Blog


i wasn't planning on running my A/C off of an inverter, i have a generator for the times i need air conditioning, and quickly charging batteries. my solar plan is mainly battery maintaining, and supplemental power. when running off-grid, i will be running just lights (LED) and possibly the furnace. the A/C will only be when needed for heat safety reasons.
I think i can get by with a medium sized inverter, like 3500W - 4000W. if recording music at the time, it will only be running my laptop, my audio mixer (300W - 350W, i think), and a small complement of other audio gear. no power amps for anything.
there is no longer a water-pump, as i will use water in jugs, and a porta-potty. likely won't camp for long enough to worry about needing a shower. this camper no longer has a shower anyway... think of it as a step above tent camping, for my needs. a tent with wheels, and a 5th wheel hookup.  

i will look into Trojan and Crown batteries. i planed on using just flooded deep-cycle marine, for the cost.
for my needs, the RV furnace will work, but i will have a diesel heater for backup. maybe even two... (have one already)
my previous RV furnace would go about 5 days on two 30 pound tanks. if i need more than that, i can pack up and go home 

i was already planning on either installing a soft-start A/C, or adding one to what i can afford. it is much easier on the power systems.

i will check out the Blog, see what it has to say. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

so, found the problem with the trailering lights not working correctly. it was, as i expected, a bad ground.

while walking around the camper, however, i found a tire had blown at some point. looks like weather rot, as the steel belts are rusted.

as for the generator proposed location, where the shower used to be, is off the table. on the outside is the awning support arm. so i will try for in the back, on the drivers side. used to be the kitchen, and the floor is rotted anyway. so if i can get the floor that is rotted tore up there, i can mount the generator there, and build the sealed (to the inside) compartment. the real trick will be cutting the aluminum frame to fit the vented compartment door i bought., while still maintaining support. i think if i build a wooden frame, and fit that in place, then i can cut the camper skin to a hole already cut into the wooden frame. the aluminum frame will be attached with angle brackets to the wooden frame (secured with aluminum rivets). then i simply mount the door and frame that i bought. 
inside, i need to build a sealed compartment, lined with metal, just in case, and sealed for carbon-monoxide. then i just have to replace the floor plywood. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

man is it hot and humid outside, i just finished building the wooden frame for the hatch. when i cool down, or tomorrow, i will make the hole in the side of my camper. the door frame came with foam weather seal around the outside, but i think i may use a sealant as well. i rather like Geocel, but it may prevent any future removal, if i should decide to do the siding. maybe just a silicon, for now will be fine.

as i will be having quite a bit of audio equipment in my camper, for recording music, i ordered an older style alarm system. it is wired, and works with the alarm-system 12V smoke detectors i got as well. the wired alarm system is 12V powered, so it will work. i plan on using a buck-boost DC-to-DC converter that will output regulated 12V DC power, with anywhere from 9-23V of input. may put a very slight strain on the DC power system, but i hope the solar will take care of it. in winter, when there is snow on the panels... my landlord snowblows, so i will have to wait until after that to clean them off. that should "help" prevent flying rocks from breaking them. not sure what i will do to keep them from icing up...
but i plan on having every single hatch with a alarm sensor on it (dang neighborhood kids... stole my original landing gear crank out of a compartment).

i haven't progressed on the flooring removal, as i discovered the floor is the only thing between the inside, and outside there... no under-belly, or insulation of any kind... (may have to fix the no insulation part, somehow) so if i remove it, the inside of my camper becomes a haven for neighborhood cats and rodents. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Finished installing the wooden frame for the generator compartment door, and installed the door... looks like utter crap. where i located it, i had planned on it overlapping a previous hole, but it didn't cover that far... i have caulking to seal it for now, but it needs new camper skin... or at least a better way of patching the gap. i want to re-skin the camper anyway, but not right now, so it will have to stay looking like crap for now.

i didn't get the floor torn up yet, as i just have not gotten to it.
for those that want to see my ToDo list of what i have to do, i have made a page on my website for it. (just as a heads up, my website is NON-COMMERCIAL, as i don't have ads, or sell anything, that i am aware of.)
I try to keep the list updated so you can tell what i have and have not done. it may not be complete, but i am working on it. not even sure if the Gallery works yet...

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

So, been a while since an update... waiting for the IRS to deposit my TAX Return money, before i can continue much.
but i have been busy with various things, like trying to get the generator running. i suspect it really does need the control board...
i am working on installing my security/fire alarm system... got the control center installed, and the interface panel, as well as the smoke detectors. i also added a Enforcer pager, so i can be notified (providing i am within RF range). i just need to install the window and door sensors, and hide the wires in the to-be-built sound insulated walls (for the studio mode).

but once i get funding, i can really start construction. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

went out tinkering on the RV generator, as the new carb arrived via UPS... now the fuel pump has crapped out... seriously considering making the new generator compartment door into a battery compartment door, and buying a portable generator...
it could just need a fuel pump, and maybe a control board, but i think i am done with it. mark it down as another one of my failures, and moving on. total investment:
generator - $100
carb - $25
starter - $28
$153

a lot of people told me to go portable, but i thought i could get this one running. anybody in Maine, or very nearby, want to buy a $150 project?  
now i am looking at the HFT Predator 9000W inverter generator...

now, about moving the batteries back... it would require large battery cables for the distance. i would likely remove the flooring there, in case of acid spills, as i am going with flooded lead-acid deep-cycles, due to cost. the floor would be replaced with some sort of battery tray. i think i could fit 4 batteries back there, easily. perhaps some golf-cart 6V batteries, if i can find some new ones available.
a battery box would be far better than a generator box, as i only have to insulate for heat/cold and sound, no different than a wall. no frame vibration... all in all, it is and will be better.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

just finished installing a roof wire gland for my solar panel wires!
first thing i did was cut an access hole in the ceiling paneling in the utility room. i pushed back the insulation, and drilled a pilot hole up through the roof aluminum. from the top, i used a hole-saw to cut a 1.75" hole, using the pilot hole as a guide. then i prepared a backer board for the under-side of the roof aluminum by centering the roof gland box over it, and tracing the outline. i then used the hole-saw to start a hole in the backer board, for locating. i also made marks on the center of the hole to align front and back. i inserted a screw part-way into the center of the started hole to use as a handle, and stuck the backer board up through the access hole, above the insulation, so that the inserted screw was pushed out the hole in the roof.
from above, i used the screw in the backer board to center the board, so the started hole lined up with the hole in the roof. then i inserted three screws through the roof aluminum into the backer board, near the center hole. then with the backer board held in place by the roof aluminum, i used the drill and hole-saw to finish the hole through.
now would be a good time for it to rain, i thought to myself... 
with the solar panel wires inserted into the roof glands, and the glands assembled into the gland box, i washed the roof aluminum with acetone to remove the age film, and did the same to the mounting surface of the roof gland box, to be sure of no contaminants. then i applied caulking to the roof gland box mounting surface, and pushed the gland box onto the roof, centered over the hole in the roof. i then used stainless screws to attach the roof gland box to the backer board, sandwiching the aluminum roofing in between, and holding it tight and flat.
then i fished the solar wires from the roof access hole, to the solar MPPT charge controller, and made my connections there (red wire to positive, black wire to negative). i left the cover for the roof access hole off so i can check for leaks when it rains.
i then carried my one 100W solar panel (one, so far) up to the roof, and connected the connectors already in place. i placed the panel in the sunny part of the roof (about 45% direct sunlight), and climbed down to check the charge controller display. drawing 0.7A standby (alarm system, likely), and charging at about 3A 
not much, but with the partial charge i gave the flat battery, i suspect it will be enough to go the night, until it starts back up in the morning... and so on. i will keep an eye on it, but i think it will be able to hold it's own, on standby, with just the one panel. i plan on adding more panels in the future.
now i just hope for no wind, until i can secure the panel on the roof... i have no panel mounts yet...

what i had in mind was something that mounted to the side roof frame rails, or directly to the roof rafters, if i can seal it. then mount some rails to clamp the panels to. this would get the panels off the roof directly, but in trade-off, when under tow, would unfortunately allow wind to pass between the roof and panel, hopefully without breaking the panel...

i also picked ip a piece of 12" x 24" diamond-plate aluminum (it is what they had in store) to use as the outside panel for my new RV furnace. so perhaps tomorrow i "may" get around to installing that. if i can get the old one out easily.
it is my intention to have two ducts going to the bedroom, and two to the main room, with the furnace intake in the middle, roughly. this will, i hope, distribute the heat evenly. i "hope" to pick up some insulated 4" duct tube, but will use non-insulated if it is all i can find. all i found so far is bare fiberglass inside, and i can't see that being healthy. i will likely have to use regular hose (heating specific).
as the furnace will be built in, so to speak, i will have to fashion a intake grill from something... 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

just finished installing my new furnace, minus the duct work. 
i put it back in the same hole, that was the correct size already, so it went sorta quickly. getting the old one out took longer, actually.
i didn't get the outside panel, so for now i have a 1/8" diamond-plate aluminum panel. looks a little odd, but it "may" be temporary, or i may make it fit better.
i won't boar you to death with precise details, like my last long post, but after a blown fuse (thermostat wire grazed the furnace case), and some other non-events, like hurting my wrist trying to hole-saw the aluminum plate for the vents, and it was ready for a test fire. i did punch out two vent holes in the plenum, to keep it from over heating.
I must say, i am impressed! it is a Suburban SF35Q, and man is it nice. other than the air movement, and it moves a lot of air, i didn't even know it was running (burning), until i noticed it was producing heat! i had to put my ear down to it to hear it burn from the inside!
the old furnace, by comparison, other than the fan bushings howling, sounded like a fighter jet taking off, while on fire. 

i am very pleased with this furnace! i got it off eBay from rvpartsandsupply, for $649.95 (free shipping), so if you need a replacement furnace, and don't mind making stuff to install it (or you can buy the factory panel... i am just too cheap  ), this may be the furnace for you.
not trying to SPAM here, really i am not. i am just so pleased with the furnace, i wanted to share. 

next on the furnace ToDo list: install duct-work, and run a LP gas line to the regulator in the LP tank compartment. i test ran it off a long space-heater style hose and regulator, run out the door, so the tank was outside.
being that fall is almost here (leaves are already starting to fall), i need to get the furnace working fully so i can have heat to work on the camper in the winter, if i choose.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

thought i would take a moment to catch you all up on what i am doing with my 5th wheel camper. 

i have abandoned the idea of making a mobile music recording studio/camper, in favor of just a camper.
i haven't done much lately, as the money ran out, sadly, and i ran out of summer. my current priorities are to replace the two tires that are bad (one blown, one ready to). at least then i can move the camper about again. sun-rot is a real thing with tires, and i recommend some tire covers, of some sort. anything that will block the UV rays from breaking down the rubber.
i hope to drop the tanks out completely, if possible. no plumbing, no need for tanks... what i plan to do for plumbing, is borrow from my days of hiking, in a way. i plan on getting a tank-toilet, or a camping composter. for washing dishes, i plan on either having a sink with a bucket under it for washing dishes (at the low end of the scale), or having only a large grey-water tank for the sink, and a fresh water tank for running water. only the sink, plain and simple, and less to worry about winterizing.
I am leaning toward the grey water tank idea. the existing tanks leak, so i still want to drop those tanks and get rid of them, somehow (not sure how yet...). i don't trust the fresh water tank as being sanitary, but i could hide a rectangular tank in a cabinet somewhere, or under the couch... the new grey water tank will go... where it fits. really depends on what it is for a tank. and where i can fit it.
for a stove, all i need is a LP cook-top. i don't trust LP ovens with a pilot light, and i don't bake anyway.  i will have a microwave though.
I would like to fix up my RV generator (Onan Microquiet 4000), and install it for alternate power when needed (battery charge, A/C, whatever). food storage will be in a ice cooler. no hot water, unless it is boiled.
bedroom over the 5th wheel pin-box will be as previously described, in other messages. bare floor for a air mattress and sleeping bag.
kitchen will be small, and the dinette will not be installed, in favor of counter seating. this is to save space, really. the living room will be designed around a group gathering. bench/couch on one side to cover the furnace, and a bench on the other side for guest seating. i will buy a folding table to setup for board-games, cards, and other socializing activities. i may or may not install a TV with a video player. probably will... if i can find a 12V compatible unit. so no need for generator or inverter, just for TV. i have a car DVD head-unit radio that can be the video player and radio.
may even design a L shaped couch/bench for living room...

my focus is this, create a place to sleep, eat, cook, and use the bathroom, and place to gather in bad weather. as the point, if i am not mistaken, of camping, is to enjoy the outdoors!  i like to hunt, i like to fish, i hike (or used to when i was less fat  ), and i love the outdoors. but in bad weather, i love the indoors too 
Just saying, i don't need too much comfort of home. if i wanted that, i would save money by just staying home.  i just prefer the structure of a camper, over a tent that a bear views as a burrito, with a meaty center 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

After looking into the prices of waste holding tanks, i may actually replace the sketchy OEM tanks, and have a clean/grey/black tank system again. the trick will be dropping the current tanks, that i hope like heck are dry...
the camper was bought with an unknown history, so...

anyway, i could have the black-water under the toilet, as usual. the grey water beside it, so the drains can be joined to one outlet (two valves). the clean water tank can go almost anywhere under the camper.
for plumbing, i expect i can use regular PVC, with rubber connectors now and then for vibration joints. the toilet will drop pretty much straight down, and the bathroom sink will have to be plumbed to the tank. the kitchen sink will also have to be plumbed back. i may move the kitchen to back right up to the bathroom for ease in plumbing, but likely not.
fridge will be a cooler, still, and cook stove will still be oven-less.
i just thought a plumbed toilet would be easier to drain... and with no shower, in theory, i could have one combined black/grey water tank. that would ensure enough space for washing dishes/hands, and with a big enough tank, plenty of toileting.
still no water heater...
i will try to plumb the water lines to enable draining, using PEX.
drain lines will be sloped, based on a level camper, but also a little extra for if the camper is un-level. just grey-water, so no risk of stuck "lumps" in the pipes.

so, slight change of plans, but i think it is for the better.

at home, i do not have the capacity to add a large waste-water drain for a camper... due to house layout and plumbing location, it just can't be done. now, a smaller 2" drain may be possible...
has anybody had luck with a RV macerator pump on the drain outlet? this may be more possible to use in my case. if not, i will have to fine a location to dump before i get home... but with a 2" or 2.5" drain, i may be able to work it in somehow. i will look again and see if i can evaluate how to add a 3" drain... maybe i can chop off a clean-out, add a sanitary Y fitting, and add in something. a 2-2.5" line would be easiest, but a 3" line may be possible, if i can build a P-trap sort of setup... i will have to check with my plumber... i don't think it needs a vent on the P-trap, as the RV tank is vented. the problem though, is that the fitting would have to be ABOVE the tank outlet, hence my question about the macerator pump idea.

I will have to check with the local sewage treatment plant and see if they have a RV dump station. some do...

so unless i hear otherwise, that it is really bad to do, i will have one waste tank, like a 62 gallon waste tank i found on eBay, and as big of a clean water tank as i can afford.

as previously stated, i plan on the camper being like a central lodge for myself and friends (who are in tents) with provisions for cooking, bathroom, and gathering in bad weather. back when i tent camped, i was perfectly happy bathing in a stream/pond, with a solar shower (hmmm... thoughts on this below) or a sponge-bath, so no need for a full shower.

on the solar shower thought... it could be possible, to have a outdoor shower hookup. install a water-heater... outdoor mixing valve (behind a hatch) with a shower head on a hose, so it can be stowed. then just get a shower tent, and tada, high-class outdoor shower  so i would need plenty of clean water, but the same single waste water tank, as the shower just runs on to the ground (with an outdoor carpet to keep your feet clean).
How's that for roughing it, with some camper amenities? 

there just isn't much room in a 25-foot 5th wheel for all the normal amenities, *and *enough comfort for a group of people. the former bathroom/shower/master closet/utility room was very cramped, and had no space to turn around, and i didn't like that. as i have planned, there is room for a bathroom with sink, master closet, and utility, and still have room to turn around and get dressed after climbing out of bed.

i hope to re-arrange the master bedroom to have a little more headroom by getting rid of the lift-up bed frame, and have the air-mattress on the floor. i am a big guy, and i need head-room. 

one of these days, i hope to get some measurements of the camper as-is, so i can draw out some layout prints for you folks. that way you can see what i am working with, and have planned. I have a CAD program (due to my CNC router i am building), so that will help... though that depends on if i can afford the $500 to renew the license this year.  but having CAD plans will also help me design my ideas. i can save a base plan, and several variations around it. i think i can export to a PDF... will have to look into that.

But anyway, just wanted to do a quick update on my ideas.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

need a bit of critical thinking...
for my 5th-wheel, i have a 14gallon water heater, with a good tank, but bad element. now, i have a pair of 12V 600W elements from an other failed-start project. i only need one for the water-heater. my thinking is, i really can't afford a new electric-start LP water heater, and certainly can't afford a tankless. my old-old camper water-heater had a blown tank, hence me buying the 14G 110Vac (1500W) water heater, that now has a bad element.
i know how to conserve water, so 14G (or is it 20G...?) was enough before, and will be enough now. the question is, is it practical? 600W is nearly 50A! i can't run that off battery, only shore-power or generator. so would i be better off to find a 110Vac element and ONLY have hot water when plugged in? ...yes, i just picked up on the obvious answer there... either way i have to be plugged in. so really, i NEED to somehow get a RV water-heater. i can run it off 12Vdc, but for how long? i would need some pretty substantial batteries, and at least as many solar panels as the local solar-farm 
so, just writing it out gave me my own critical thinking. 

next order of thought... my current tanks are in better shape than i thought, i think. i looked under, and what i thought was water dripping, looks to be hardened drips of PVC cement. but i expect i will need to fill the tanks to be sure they do not leak, before committing to them. the slide valves could stand to be replaced, i think... those tend to stick and leak with age.
clean water tank... i just don't trust it. the gravity fill was open to the bugs and elements for who knows how long. i would not drink it, and who knows if it would pass the "lumps" out the drain if i flushed it. so i need to drop at least that tank, or leave it and build in a new tank. that would be classy.  why is your kitchen cabinets all without doors in them??? because that's where the water tank is...   but seriously, i either drop the tank, or find a way to clean it. worst case scenario, i put up a sign that the water is not for drinking, and store drinking water in a cooler...
i think the tank is just under the living room floor... and i don't think it is huge either (30 - 40G?). i could potentially use that tank for washing, once i get the lumps and bugs out. and get a smaller tank for the kitchen only, and plumb it to a drinking water faucet thing... 15 - 20G should hold several people a while... a 25G tank is about 34" X 17" X 10", and i could see that fitting in a cabinet area without trouble. just when i make my gravity fill connections outside, i would need two, for each tank, and label one as drinking water. not that it would make a huge difference, as it would be filled with a hose anyway.  so maybe just the one tank for fresh water, and put a boil-order on it.
one way i can think of to clean the lumps out of that tank, would be to run a hose from the gravity fill, outside. plug off the vent, and run water through the tank from the bottom up, to float out the debris (with any luck). then when i drain the tank again, run it through a paint filter (flows better than a coffee filter) to check for lumps and large grit.

moving my toilet in the bathroom to the other side of the space should be fairly easy, i think. the bathroom/utility space already has a raised floor, so i can cut a larger access hole, re-plumb the toilet flange to the other side (don't want a toilet right beside my electrical panel), and be done. i assume i can use a standard toilet flange for a house, and just bolt a RV toilet onto it???

may even move the bathroom sink over there too, to really open up the utility and master closet side of the space. i am also thinking of doing away with the AC volt and amp gauges... they are open back, and i don't like the idea of open AC gauges. they looked neat at the time, but look unsafe now that i have studied them for a while. so that's $50 down the drain... but moving right along...
the rest of the power panel is fine, i just have to run more wire for various things. A/C, outlets, and so on. all lighting will be 12V LED lighting.

I still want to change the bedroom/bathroom/utility room door from a sliding pocket door (i am a carpenter, and i hate pocket doors), to a swing door. i will use a latch similar to the entry door, just to make finding parts easy.

Still have to replace the floor in the kitchen... it is still rotted, and despite me waiting, it has not replaced itself yet. not really a big deal, i just have to get the material.

i have a large hatch on the side in back that was supposed to be for a in-board RV generator. now i am thinking of insulating it, and making it a cooler space. that way i can access the cooler from inside, or slide it into place from outside. it is a really big hatch, so i have to find a good use for it.
I had thought of moving the batteries back there, and i may still yet. wouldn't be that hard to do, really. tie it to frame ground for the negative, and run a long heavy cable for the... scratch that. not moving the batteries, but moving the whole power back there. my AC power inlet is up front, but i have plenty of 6/3 wire, so i can run that back, move the power panel back, batteries back, charger back, solar charger back (with longer wires for the solar panel hookups). it could work out better!

i could change the kitchen from a sideways U shape, to a standard U (counter on back wall, cooking and cooler on one side, power cabinets on the other (lower) side. with uppers as well. it could work out better than my first plans...
this would empty the space in the lowers of the master closet space, so i could just have some access doors down low for the wires that pass through, and the heating ducts. i could build a little bench seat in there that is removable, so i have a place to sit while i get dressed (handy as you get older  ).

all these plans, i am starting to get real excited again about this renovation. 😍
sometimes i just have to talk myself into things 

now, batteries... i know, there are many choices i should use, but deep-cycle marine/RV batteries from Wal-Mart are what i can afford. when i get a new battery for the camper, i will make a note of the group size for later, and check the actual size so i know how many will fit in my battery compartment. i am thinking a total of 6, if i buy as i can afford, will fit. 3 down low, and 3 on an upper shelf (welded steel, to handle the weight). i am thinking if i use Anderson connectors to connect the batteries in, with inline fuses. that will make it easier to replace in the future too. thinking either 50A or 175A. probably 50A, as with two batteries, and two 50A connectors, i can pass 100A. more than enough! heck, 50A for just one is a good start. i doubt i will be drawing more than 50A, to begin with. unless i use those water-heater elements... 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

got to thinking... usually a bad thing (me thinking), but in this instance i think it may be a good idea.
I have a 8KW diesel parking heater left over from my previous camper, and i just test fired it and it still works, makes heat, and turns off as expected. so, i was wondering what to do with the space in the forward compartment (under the 5th wheel over-hang). the battery was there before, but it will be empty after i move the electrical. i think i can mount the diesel heater in there, and duct the heat and air intake up into the bedroom for backup heat. the burn air and intake can be routed down the bottom of the compartment, and outside, with the exhaust directed sideways, not under the over-hang or camper. i am not particularly interested in dying in my sleep. not crazy about dying while awake either, but that is a whole different story.
my plan is to set it to one side as far as possible, and dust the heat up, and the air intake just forward into the utility room, where the steps to the bedroom are. i will build a divider around the heater, as i intend to store the sewer hose in the front compartment, perhaps. will perhaps make a compartment liner if i do, and provide some ventilation.
i intend to use insulated ducting to and from the heater, as well as Styrofoam insulation around the heater, just to keep it from cold-soaking, and blowing ice air as the heater fires up.
i intend to use kerosene in the heater, as in the very cold months in Maine, diesel tends to gel, and plug filters and such. kerosene does not seem to do that. we do the same with oil-fired furnaces in houses, where the tank is outside in the cold. this tank will be in the cold, as i don't want to spill fuel oil on the floor inside... thinking about a small inboard boat fuel tank, so i can add a fuel fill outside, but that may be going overboard (no pun intended...)

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Winter has arrived, here in Maine, USA.
still have some prep to do before the snow falls... dang, missed that deadline! 
fortunately, my tanks are empty, and plumbing is currently not there, so other than taking the solar panel off the roof to protect from ice from the snow-blower, it is effectively winterized, though when i disconnect the solar panel, i will need to remove the battery and place it on a maintenance charger for the winter. the battery really has no life left, but i would rather not let my Core return blow up inside my camper from freezing... i hope it hasn't already, actually. last check it was fine, but... the volts were pretty low. i plan on buying new batteries, but i don't want a compartment full of acid either.

this weekend will be a good time, if i have the time, to clean out my camper too, and organize the parts for it. say nothing about finding my tools and getting them organized as well. i am not an organized person... i tend to leave things where i last used them, for when i come back on task. 

i didn't happen to get new tires for my camper... i discovered my truck was not registered, and that took priority. but i still have intentions to get tires. if i can do it for $300 or less, i may do it this weekend. what better time to change tires than when you are kneeling in snow, on frozen ground. 

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Just mounted a pair of RubberMaster 225/75/15 tires on my 5th Wheel camper. i thought they were some cheep tires, just to get me by while i renovate the camper. turns out they are made in America, supposedly! load-range E (10-ply), speed range M (88Mph).
I learned something else i didn't know about my camper... it has shock-absorbers... i honestly didn't know they came with shocks. learn something new every day 

so now, as far as road-ready status: need a new electrical (to tow vehicle) hookup cable and connector. need to update the marker lights... all of them (some work, almost  ). and then just register the camper when the renovation is done!

it seems strange for that portion to be so close to being done. the tires were a big part of holding me back, but that is now behind me, and on to the next... the kitchen floor replacement. as in full plywood replacement... other than what is under the walls. a little hard to replace that. 
I think i can do the replacement with just a sheet of plywood. and i will either paint the underside, or something to protect it. just to keep the moisture out, mainly.

~Travis


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

just received some Anderson SB50 connectors, and some 8AWG wire. 
the plan with my batteries is to build a rack inside the former generator compartment door, and keep my batteries there. with what i have for connectors, i can connect 5 batteries in parallel. hence the reason for the 8AWG wire. less overall load per battery, and i can still run most everything off just one battery connection, if it comes to that. my biggest load will be the furnace blower. the lighting will be all LED. though i may add a car dvd-player/radio, and wire in some speakers, plus a small to medium 12V TV.
Each battery will have a SB50 connector, so i can slide in the batteries, and plug them in, allowing tighter space, with no need to support the batteries while making the connections.
there will be a master disconnect switch, and each battery will be fused for 40A. battery isolation will be possible by pulling fuses.
now that i think about it... my DC distribution panel is only rated for 50A anyway... so it is almost a mute point to worry about drawing more than that.  

i just realized a snag in my plans... the battery compartment can't be very deep, as i have plumbing that needs to run past it. this coming spring/summer, after i replace the rotted flooring, i will pick up a single battery in the Wal-Mart group number i will likely use. probably the smaller deep-cycle, so i have room for plumbing. i will use that one battery to get measurements for the battery rack. the rack will be constructed from heavy steel plate, with heavy steel angle stock for the side supports. i will cover the underside of the top shelf with 1/4" plywood, in case the battery hold-down doesn't work, and the battery jumps up on a bump. the rack will be sheathed in thin gauge steel, for a firewall. but the side to the compartment door will be open to the door, as the door is vented, and i don't want battery charging gasses building up in the compartment.


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## Jennifer Morgon (Dec 24, 2015)

Renovation not only restores the camper but also gives you positive vibes whenever you enter into it. You can renovate your old 5th wheel camper by installing modern technologies into it. Like, you can install a latest solar panel and fix it with crown batteries as they last for years, through this you can enjoy in your camper even in summers as they can run AC invertor smoothly. Moreover, you can update your camper’s furniture and paint to refresh the inner condition.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

going to try two products on this camper. i bought a winter compatible "Arctic Blue" vehicle connection cable, see if it really stays flexible in Maine, USA winters. but mostly for the heavy-duty electrical connection.
Also, i got some sort of charge relay that only connects the tow-vehicle charge connection when the tow vehicle is running. supposed to protect the vehicle battery from dying while connected.

Now, i just have to wait for weather warm enough to install them. 

i have two options on my plate, as far as a shower. indoor, back where it was, or outdoor in a shower tent..
if it is outdoor, i can build cabinets into the former shower space, like for clothing storage, or whatever else i would store there.
if it is indoor, i have to fix that bit of plumbing, as it was broken before i bought the camper (frozen, likely).
as much as a PITA it will be to restore back indoors, i am leaning that way. just for the simplicity of setup.

i am starting to think that this camper project will be an odd-ball one. will look nice and fresh inside, and ratty on the outside. at least it shouldn't be a huge theft issue.  keep it ratty, but weather tight outside, and comfortable inside.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

an into a bit of a issue with my fresh water tank... it is filthy inside... as in it look like something was living inside it.
so, not trusting the "fresh" part of the tank. and i don't want to tear up that part of the floor to replace the tank, so i will go with a second, above floor tank. looking at a 46 Gallon model... but placement may be an issue. thinking of under the bench seat, but the wheel well is there. good for weight distribution, but with the tank being 14" high, plus the wheel-well height (didn't measure... 4"?), it will be close to the top of the bench. plus i want Styrofoam under it to protect from the cold wheel-well. bit of a planning nightmare, with nothing in place to judge dimensions with. at least it will be in the warm part of the camper...

as for the above mentioned shower situation... now leaning toward a outdoor "cowboy" shower setup. this is only because i took some measurements of the shower space, existing, and me being 6' 2", my head would hit the ceiling. only issue with the outdoor shower is if it rains... maybe setup the shower in a spot under the awning, when needed.

but i wonder too, 46 Gallons... is it enough for a family? granted, my camper will have space for 1 air-mattress in the bedroom, for me an a woman. (assuming she likes camping  ) but the rest of sleeping will either be air-mattresses on the floor, or an outside tent (could be fun...) but eventually there may be a family.


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## Happy Joe (10 mo ago)

...?? you're worried about getting rained on while you shower? (I can see it making the shower cooler/cold (Brrr.../not fun)... should't be bad in the summer though.

Bringing enough water used to be a big decision for me but since the family has scattered I can get by on 2 to 3 gallons per weekend (but that's just me). 

...Tried setting up a heated shower using a heat exchanger on the vehicle engine and a small pump, it worked fairly well with filtered stream water, but any more I usually just sponge off before bed.

I have used a Cornelius keg/soda tank but heating the water was not easy.
(with a big pot you can heat water pour it in the tank then pressurize it and take a shower but if any thing it is more hassle than the hose, wires, pump, heat exchanger routine).

Enjoy!


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Happy Joe said:


> ...?? you're worried about getting rained on while you shower? (I can see it making the shower cooler/cold (Brrr.../not fun)... should't be bad in the summer though.


BWAHAHAHA! 
when you put it that way... 
actually my thoughts were more about muddy feet in the rain, but i guess a pair of flip-flops for walking between the shower and camper door would solve that as well.



> Bringing enough water used to be a big decision for me but since the family has scattered I can get by on 2 to 3 gallons per weekend (but that's just me).


with the water in the tank being for dish washing, showering, flushing the toilet, washing hands... 2 to 3 gallons may be a tad light. 
course, the clean water tank is mainly just for dry-camping (ironic name for no water hookups on-site), but as i want the option of camping not at a RV park, i need water storage.



> ...Tried setting up a heated shower using a heat exchanger on the vehicle engine and a small pump, it worked fairly well with filtered stream water, but any more I usually just sponge off before bed.
> 
> I have used a Cornelius keg/soda tank but heating the water was not easy.
> (with a big pot you can heat water pour it in the tank then pressurize it and take a shower but if any thing it is more hassle than the hose, wires, pump, heat exchanger routine).
> ...


the benefit of having a camper, is i will have a propane fired water-heater.
i have tent camped in the past, back when i did 100 miles or so of hiking, in 1995. it was great, and i had a lot of fun. but sometimes is is just as much fun with a few amenities available  to each, their own.

one thing i know this camper will be lacking in, is storage for food, clothing, and general stuff. so maybe having an outdoor shower will work to my benefit. in the former shower/tub location, i can build in a set of shelves, with simple cargo-net "stuff" retention. good place to store tent for the kids, the shower tent, and maybe some extra food and water, if needed.

also, i am about 51% sure i will be moving the kitchen to where the living room used to be. sure, the window layout will be odd, then, but if i just have a cook-top, and sink, with a cooler for food storage, how big of a kitchen do i really need.
the back of the camper will then be a "U" shaped dinette, with a table that drops down to convert the dinette into a spare bed. with battery storage under one side, and the water-heater under the other. may still have the outdoor shower hookups in a hatch under the dinette. just some things to think about...


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## Happy Joe (10 mo ago)

"actually my thoughts were more about muddy feet in the rain, but i guess a pair of flip-flops for walking between the shower and camper door would solve that as well."

..not trying to tell you how to do any thing; but I used perforated rubber mat in the shower to prevent "muddy foot" and have found that most of the dirt/usually sand around here) wipes off pretty easily on a piece of carpet or door mat at the entry.. A pump up sprayer was what I used for showering in camp most recently... paint it black and warm it and the water inside in the sun.

"with the water in the tank being for dish washing, showering, flushing the toilet, washing hands... 2 to 3 gallons may be a tad light.  "

Yep! the dirty dish issue was largely solved with with (burnable) paper plates (though I still carry a pair hard plates for when I wish to dine civilized). Tableware only takes a dab of water to clean (often stream water;.. got to be careful to be relatively certain that its not polluted though; boiling works if not). Unless I am camping in the desert; I rarely bring more than 7 gallons of potable water for a weekend and end up dumping most/all of it on the campfire before leaving...

I do a sponge bath/damp wipe down each night before bed (to de-grunge) and in the mornings, after shaving; showers are a great luxury which I have gotten away from while camping; they take too much water and/or equipment to support, when tent camping far from civilization, IMO.

The port-a-potti has it own tank, a couple of gallons, (and an auxiliary spray bottle); I don't count the water as potable.

Unscented baby wipes are usually used to clean hands and an occasional face... they burn just fine in the camp fire.

A water heater would be great!
Here is mine;








Its (usually) propane powered too!
...a liter is enough to shave/sponge off with, usually...

"sometimes (edit; camping) is just as much fun with a few amenities available  to each, their own. "

I 110% agree; I am sometimes accused of Glamping...no apologies needed or given.

i decreased my stove from 2 to one burner, to reduce the amount f gear that I camp with, and have not yet found it to be a problem although I do still grill over campfire coals, sometimes...which is a prime source of the grubbiness that needs to be cleaned at the end of the day..

Enjoy!


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

not sure if i updated my plans to the latest, or not. read back a bit and didn't find mention, but that doesn't mean i didn't mention it...

the back of the camper, where the kitchen used to be, i will build into a large "U" shaped dinette that converts to a bed for extra sleeping. the kitchen will go where the couch used to be, and will be setup with a cooktop (no oven), sink, microwave, and of course some counter-space, with some upper cabinets as well.
batteries (about 400Ah planed) will go under one side of the dinette, and the water heater under the other side. the back of the "U" will just be space for under seat storage.
i will likely put the water tank under the kitchen cabinets, beside the furnace (insulated a bit from direct radiation). it will be supported off the floor so plumbing and wires can pass under it. i will support it well, and it will likely be around 500 - 600 pounds of water weight. cabinet frame there will be dimensional lumber (2x4) to constrain the tank from moving. the alternative is to use the OEM water tank, but i think it may be contaminated with mouse waste that rained down when i pulled off a piece of ceiling paneling. i could send a camera down inside and check it, if i can find my bore-scope camera. it would simplify things if it is clean... no idea what size it is.
the main trick will be in getting the wiring straightened out. the lighting will be 12V LED, so all lighting can be on one fuse circuit, fairly easy. i also want some 12V power ports and USB charging outlets scattered about. the AC power will only be usable when plugged into shore-power, until i cat an inverter. there will only be 3 AC only items: A/C, microwave, and the AC-DC battery charger. all of which could be generator run when out in the "sticks" (remote location). though the A/C takes a LOT of power, and will likely only be used when plugged into 50A RV service. most of the time i will just have to open a window and use a fan.
it is estimated that most of the time will be out of the camper, enjoying the outdoors. but in bad weather... 

currently, i still need to replace the section of rotten flooring that i tore up (maybe this weekend). then i can work on the battery box. i can then start framing the dinette, so i can visualize the rest of the build better. i will wait on the kitchen cabinet framework, i think, until i know if i need to get a new tank, or just sanitize the OEM one. but when i can start the cabinet frame, then i can work on the wiring, and furnace air ducting.
the furnace will be ducted as such. two 4" hoses to the bedroom and bathroom. and one to the kitchen, tying in the under-mount tank heating duct (if i use that tank), and another 4" duct by the dinette. that will give me enough i think. the return-air will be through a louvered panel in the bottom of the kitchen cabinets.
the floor of the cabinets will be either removable, or down to the camper floor, to provide access to plumbing and such underneath.
flooring material will be vinyl sheet, and installed everywhere possible, just to clean up the appearance under the cabinets, and other places. easier to clean than raw plywood. 

but working on it this weekend depends on how the ground around it is. Mud Season as come to Maine, and i would rather not sink up to my armpits in mud, trying to come and go from the camper.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

I sent my digital borescope camera down into the water tank, and there is a lot of grit, and a dead moth. i think with several good flushing cycles, i can possibly reuse it. it will need to be sanitized, and i will likely need a water filter after the pump. the pump has a debris screen, but if i want to drink the water... and i don't want to install a second tank just for drinking...
also, i pulled up the temporary plastic covering the hole in the floor where the rotted floor was, and stapled down two layers of a product called RinoGuard to keep the new plywood dry. it is a synthetic roofing paper (more like a plastic).
i have not installed the new plywood, as it turned out i didn't have any on hand. as i am out of money for the week...


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## Admin (Dec 1, 2011)

Great thread, love to see these remodels.

Jeff


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

I enjoyed going through this thread. There is a lot that goes into a camper. Maybe I missed it but if you use a new membrane roof, you have the option of using self leveling silicone or the "standard" Dicor self leveling lap sealant. You also need to decide how much insulation you have in the underbelly to make your new camper more 4 season ready. You should also consider tank heater pads to attach to all of your tanks to minimize the likelihood of the tanks freezing.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

cbramsey5898 said:


> I enjoyed going through this thread. There is a lot that goes into a camper. Maybe I missed it but if you use a new membrane roof, you have the option of using self leveling silicone or the "standard" Dicor self leveling lap sealant. You also need to decide how much insulation you have in the underbelly to make your new camper more 4 season ready. You should also consider tank heater pads to attach to all of your tanks to minimize the likelihood of the tanks freezing.


i may in the future go with a membrane roof, but the budget says if it isn't leaking yet, it will be fine for a while. 

as i have to re-do the wast slide-valve actuation, i may take the belly "tarp" down so i can see what is really going on. from where i can see, i think the mice of previous residence have packed insulation around the tanks pretty tight, so i can foresee a mess there.  not sure if i can re-use the belly "tarp", but if i can it would save me a bunch. as for insulation, i have seen some sort of Thinsulate on a roll, but it is costly. i will have to evaluate when i get there. tank heaters sound like a good option. better than the OEM version of piping some of the furnace air down to the tanks, through a little hose.

not sure this will be a 4 season camper, due to the Maine weather, and the 1" of wall insulation, but i would be pretty happy with at least 3 season.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

I would strongly suggest inspecting your roof once or twice a year to ensure that the lap sealant is still working and not cracked or not making contact, etc. Our Landmark does take some of the furnace output and duct it into the tank area to minimize the likelihood of freezing.

The belly "tarp" as you call it is actually called chloroplast. Home Depot has 4 ft x 8 ft sheets of chloroplast available for purchase. I purchased this last year when I had to remove my underbelly panels. 48 in. x 96 in. x 0.157 in. Black Corrugated Plastic Sheet (10-Pack) I purchased this and overlapped the long edge with a lap joint. You can use Underbelly Repair Tape or aluminum or steel angle iron to help hold things in place.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

cbramsey5898 said:


> I would strongly suggest inspecting your roof once or twice a year to ensure that the lap sealant is still working and not cracked or not making contact, etc. Our Landmark does take some of the furnace output and duct it into the tank area to minimize the likelihood of freezing.


my roof is aluminum. i have checked it yearly and "so far" it is holding up. i still have to inspect it this year, making sure it made it through the winter without any branches falling on it.



> The belly "tarp" as you call it is actually called chloroplast. Home Depot has 4 ft x 8 ft sheets of chloroplast available for purchase. I purchased this last year when I had to remove my underbelly panels. 48 in. x 96 in. x 0.157 in. Black Corrugated Plastic Sheet (10-Pack) I purchased this and overlapped the long edge with a lap joint. You can use Underbelly Repair Tape or aluminum or steel angle iron to help hold things in place.


that is very good to know! only other thing i found was some stuff on a roll, like a heavy black plastic.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

travis.farmer said:


> that is very good to know! only other thing i found was some stuff on a roll, like a heavy black plastic.


I found the roll on Amazon. It was cheaper than the 4 x 8 sheets I shared with you previously. Trouble with that is you have to trim it to width, hold it up to the underside of your RV frame, screw it into place with self tapping screws, and provide tension to keep the roll somewhat manageable. It made the price difference worthwhile.

For the insulation, I found a roll of Reflectix on Amazon. Reflectix roll 

I also found tank heater pads and associated switches on Amazon as well. RecPro Tank Heater Pad


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

cbramsey5898 said:


> I found the roll on Amazon. It was cheaper than the 4 x 8 sheets I shared with you previously. Trouble with that is you have to trim it to width, hold it up to the underside of your RV frame, screw it into place with self tapping screws, and provide tension to keep the roll somewhat manageable. It made the price difference worthwhile.


yes, i definitely see the advantage of the Chloroplast, as i will likely be doing the work by myself.



> For the insulation, I found a roll of Reflectix on Amazon. Reflectix roll


perfect, that looks even better than Thinsulate, as it will not hold moisture.



> I also found tank heater pads and associated switches on Amazon as well. RecPro Tank Heater Pad


far less expensive than i was expecting! 

i think my first focus though, is getting the interior built. maybe this weekend, after replacing the section of rotted floor (i keep procrastinating...), i will take some measurements of various things, so i can start working on a CAD drawing of my interior plans. that way i will be able to plug things in and make sure they fit.

one change to my plans that i would like to do, is find a spot between the battery compartment, and the water inlet, for the water heater. it was way over on the other side of the camper, OEM, but that is a long pipe run to get hot water. so if i can have it closer to the kitchen and by the furnace, it will also be shorter of a run to the LP gas connection.

but once the interior is much further along, i can fit in the other needs.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Well, turns out the scrap of plywood i thought i had to replace the rotted spot on the floor, was too think (3/4" vs the 1/2" that is already in the camper). but i did get the vehicle harness replaced, as i had everything i needed already.

i can't currently se my CAD software to draw up my renovation plans, as the internet went flop today (state-wide issue, supposedly). i am currently connected through my cell phone, using it as a hot-spot, and it doesn't have enough bandwidth to support my CAD software with cloud storage (Fusion360).

anyway, got to go, before my phone battery dies...


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

Water purification question:
my clear water tank has some debris in it (moth and a little mouse debris). now, some stuff, like the moth, can't be flushed out due to the size of the drain hole, and i can't guarantee i can get all the mouse debris out. i can't presently afford to replace the tank. i know the tank, after flushing out as much as i can, needs to be sanitized with a mixture of water with some bleach in it. but as far as i can think of, that just means i will be drinking and washing dishes with sterilized mouse debris...
my first thought is something like this: 10" x 4.5" Big Blue Whole House Water Filter Housing Sediment Carbon Cartridge | eBay
i tried a sink tap Britta drinking water filter, but it would restrict the water down to just a dribble.
arguably, i could carry water jugs, and drink from those (likely will anyway), but knowing kids, they will use the tap water for drinking or brushing their teeth, without a second thought.

so, the question is, will the above filter make the water safe, and not restrict flow?


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

I used a Beech Lane External RV Dual Water Filter System in our 5th wheel. It is very similar to what you have listed in your post. The pros are it is (I believe) smaller than what you linked to and would take up less room. If you were going to use it downstream of your fresh water tank, you would have to plumb it into the pex plumbing (not that difficult). There is a 5 micron and a 1 (or 0.5) micron filter to ensure your water is the cleanest it can be. Replaement filter cartridges can be obtained at your local big box hardware, Amazon, or eBay. The con is there isn't a pressure release button to allow you to replace the filter cartridges without getting bathed in the process.

I never noticed a restriction in water flow with the Beech Lane. 

You would have to plumb the filter (or filters) you linked into the pex plumbing which isn't that difficult. If you use a multi filter setup, it would allow you the ability to filter out more of the bad stuff. 

As long as you follow a set schedule for cartridge filter replacement, you shouldn't have an issue with water flow.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

this weekend, i got very little done. i did manage to install a new water inlet dish, but after i cut the hole to fit the larger dish (combo gravity fill, and city-water inlets, behind a locking door), i quickly realized i had no sealant available... so that was a bit of a hang-up. i just screwed the dish on to plug the hole, and will seal it later on.

i was going to work on getting measurements for the CAD drawing, but my gut went south on me.

thanks for that reference link, @cbramsey5898 , but i am looking to filter the water downstream of the tank/pump, as well as the city-water inlet. as i will be running all new PEX for the water hookups, anyway, i see no difficulty in adding a filter inline. i will just have to put them where i can get to them for winterizing, and maintenance.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

@travis.farmer , any update on your renovation?


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

cbramsey5898 said:


> @travis.farmer , any update on your renovation?


none yet, my finances tanked. it also doesn't help that the material prices have gotten so astronomically high. $9 for a single 2 X 4, 8 foot, as an example. they used to be around $1 - $2 each.

i hope to still draw up some CAD ideas of the layout, but without any current means to fund materials... my motivation has dwindled.

depending on my IRS tax refund, i may be able to move forward a bit with that. but i also may have to use it to catch up on bills.

best i can say, is to stay tuned for updates, as i have not given up on it.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

travis.farmer said:


> none yet, my finances tanked. it also doesn't help that the material prices have gotten so astronomically high. $9 for a single 2 X 4, 8 foot, as an example. they used to be around $1 - $2 each.
> 
> i hope to still draw up some CAD ideas of the layout, but without any current means to fund materials... my motivation has dwindled.
> 
> ...


Understand completely. We have reached that point (for the moment) with our 1937 home. I am in the process of replacing 2 prong electric receptables with 3 prong outlets as well as slowly integrating Apple Homekit home automation.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

travis.farmer said:


> none yet, my finances tanked


wanted to elaborate, for clarification.
i work for my father as a carpenter. lately we have been sub-contracting for another contractor, i will refer to as CJ.
as has been mentioned, i am Autistic. the fateful day at work, i was extremely overwhelmed by the number of people buzzing around, as well as one guy running a jack-hammer to break up some concrete to build a shower pan in the bathroom. so very chaotic, noisy, and unfavorable for a Autistic person to stay zeroed in on task.
so CJ walked up to me with a very confrontational attitude, and right in front of all the other workers, and proceeded to tear into me, up one side, and down the other, because for a moment i was standing motionless.
CJ is unaware i am Autistic, and likely wouldn't care anyway. but because of CJ's actions, i was so very close to a full-blown autistic meltdown, i was litteraly shaking.
as my father was my ride (to save on gas), i finished out the day, but it is quite likely i will never work for CJ ever again. i can't risk a meltdown.

so, the effect of this is, while my father still sub-contracts for CJ, i am out of work, while still having a job through my father. so no money coming in.

i would love to retaliate, and sick the ADA lawyers on CJ, but i must be the bigger man, and simply deny him the use of my labor, ever again. and quite frankly, i don't care if he ever knows why i chose this route.

i still want to work on the camper, but for now, it will have to be the no-cost projects, like prepping everything for when i can afford materials.

anyway, wanted to get that off my chest, and i hope my doing so does not offend anyone.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

No offense taken. Do what you can do WHEN you can do.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

had an idea... as far as patching the hole in the floor, where it was rotted out, i could use 3/4" plywood, and just use some 1/4" underlayment plywood to fill in the rest of the floor. or even just a section of it. that would give my batteries something more substantial to sit on top of... and i have a scrap of 3/4" plywood that may be big enough to work.
I am thinking too of installing a single layer of fiberglass over the floor, under the batteries, with a floor drain hole, in case water gets in through the hatch vent. just so i don't get any rot. (i feel like i mentioned the fiberglass idea already...)

i am just trying to think of ways to progress, with little to no money.

there is still some wiring to do, and a bit more tear-out of bad paneling, though it may very well be easier to go over the paneling with new....

i wish i had some paneling to go back up on the ceiling, and walls, but i don't have the money right now. so for wiring in the 12V lighting, i will just install blocking between the aluminum rafters, and drill a hole for the wire. then i can run the wires for the lights, and leave them pending paneling, or even temp wire the lights up.

the paneling where the shower was, i need to tear out as it is disintegrating. i would like to eventually replace it with good looking (shop-grade birch?) plywood, so i can build in storage shelving. i also need to straighten out the plumbing that used to go to the shower, as it is being discontinued there.

weight-wise, the storage shelving backing plywood could actually be pine strapping for support, and just regular paneling for covering.
not sure yet what the stored-items retention will be yet. i was thinking some stretch netting, but i could make flip down slat panels too, if it is cheaper.

other things on my list to do... the landing gear legs need to be synchronized. one is lower than the other, even though they are tied together. fairly easy, just hookup to my truck, crank the legs all the way up, and when one reaches the top, i remove the joining pin (bent over nail), and rotate the joining shaft to bring the other leg up. then simply re-join them.
i need to check the tires (air pressure), so they don't get low and develop any cracks, or major flat-spots.
i really need to attach the steps properly, so i can use them. they are only held on by one bolt...

so anyway, there is stuff i can do, even without money. i just have to get going earlier in the morning when it is cool enough to work in the camper.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

If the plywood you are planning to use isn't pressure treated or otherwise able to handle moisture, I would suggest purchasing RedGard 1 Gal. Waterproofing and Crack Prevention Membrane. Contractors use this product when building new bathrooms or renovating bathrooms to waterproof the wood.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

I am sharing some photos I took when we repaired a soft spot in our storage bay. The original material was 1/2" osb.

Here is all that the original osb that was still structurally sound after we removed all the rotted wood.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

The 1st step was to cut out all the rotted wood.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

We then added a 2x4 in the middle of the cut out section to help support the new osb we were putting in.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

We used kiln dried 2x4s because they were much less expensive than the premium 2x2s and the structural 2x2s were all twisted and such. We notched the 2x4s to give me a ledge to screw the old osb and the new osb.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

We painted all the new kiln dried wood with the RedGard mentioned previously to waterproof the wood to prevent future rotting.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

We put 2 coats of RedGard on the new osb for the same reason.









Didn't mean to semi hijack your thread but thought you be able to repeat what I did in your renovation.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

cbramsey5898 said:


> Didn't mean to semi hijack your thread but thought you be able to repeat what I did in your renovation.


not a problem  i see it as inspiration.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

@travis.farmer , do you see the size of the osb that was replaced in my bay. If you look at my first post, the two small pieces of osb in that post were ALL the semi-structurally sound osb remaining. All the rest of it just crumbled.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

yeah, i noticed that. looked like either the hatch there leaked, or the under-floor membrane was retaining water from a leak somewhere else. OSB doesn't like water very well. even the product Advantec, with it's water-resistant glue, fails after a period when constantly exposed.

i currently have a membrane installed, but i will also use a oil-based preservative on the plywood i install, as added protection, and i don't have the money for the RedGard. the oil preservative works pretty good. we use it on our staging planks, and have had those for many years. i also intend to add a belly cover membrane under everything to seal it all a little better. i think the product you mentioned a while back (i have it bookmarked), the plastic cardboard looking panels, will work well for that.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

worked on the camper a bit this morning. just some small putter jobs, as i didn't want to be coming and going much in the rain. i had some debris to clean out, and i organized my pile of parts. i also took a look at things from a design point of view, and i hope i have enough room for everything i want to build in... it seemed a bit smaller than i remembered. but then, i still have yet to take measurements for a CAD drawing... or if i did, i lost them. perhaps a job for tomorrow.

still looking to put the U-shaped dinette in back, and the kitchen on the drivers-side wall. basic kitchen, just a sink, cooktop, and storage cabinets. i think under the big window by the door, over the wheel-wells, will be a good spot for a platform to tie-down a cooler or two. so basically a platform with tie-down attachments.

water heater location... may just have to go where the old one was (back, passenger side corner), even though it is far from the sink. i will just have to put pipe insulation on the hot water line.

outdoor shower hookup... i am thinking close to the water heater, so less water is wasted waiting for it to warm up. just not sure of the logistics of actually how it will work yet. i will make a stand to hold a shower-valve inside the shower tent, and run two short hoses to the hot and cold hookups. likely just a washing-machine gang-valve for simplicity (hookup valve, not the in-tent shower valve). but i think that would be the easiest to use system.

so, even though i will build the camper for dry-camping in mind, it still needs AC power for some things, like keeping the batteries up, as the one 100W solar panel just ain't enough. 
so i will need to get a generator at some point. i will make up a generator cord that will plug in the 50A inlet, and connect to the generator's 120V/240V 30A twist-lock. the cord won't be passing 50A, so i can use a lighter cord, that is easier to manage.

just some thinking out-loud, inspired by working in the camper.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

ok, what i ended up installing (almost) in replacement of the rotted part of the floor, is Advantec. it is a OSB-like product with better glue. it was simply what i had available. i still have to make it waterproof, so i have not screwed it down yet. in the humidity, i just ran out of energy too fast to get it coated. at least i can walk over it, though.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

after getting a few measurements in my camper, i don't think i have room for a U-shaped dinette, but i do have room for a regular dinette, i think. but before abandoning the idea, i will take more measurements so i can CAD draw it out. the rough space i am working with is 14' X 7.5', give or take.

it is my hope today, to get the floor patch fully secured so i can build the battery box. the box will be sealed from the inside of the camper. i want to make a base pan out of fiberglass and resin, and drain it, in case of leak of any kind. don't want my patch to rot out. the upper part without fiberglass will be water sealed from inside, and air tight sealed as well. the batteries will vent using the vent in the compartment door.
the box will be built for 4 batteries (deep-cycle marine, as they are more affordable when the time comes).

so, we will see what i actually get done, if anything. but that is my plan, anyway.


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## Happy Joe (10 mo ago)

Good Morning!

From what you have written I am guessing that you are figuring on lead-acid chemistry rather the lithium phosphate. I used sealed lead-acid for decades and was very happy with it/them except for the weight (quite important for man/person portable batteries, for a tent; but not really a concern for a trailer/RV).

Enjoy!


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

I like your plan. With the CAD, you can play around with different arrangements to see what will work best for your application. I agree with @Happy Joe in that sealed acid batteries will give you the best value for your money. Yes they will be *MUCH *heavier than Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. However, they will be *MUCH *cheaper than Lithium batteries.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

wanted to share an idea i found on a random FaceBook video:








(just a screen-capture)
What you are looking at is a simple couch, that pulls out into a bed platform. i could build this into the back of my camper, and have more room for whatever, then when in need, just pull out, and toss a inflatable mattress onto it.
what can't be seen in the screen-capture, is exactly how it works. it is three sections. they all slide among each other. so when retracted, it is a solid surface, and when slid out, it is slats to support the air mattress.

why i think it would be a good fit for my camper? retracted, it leaves more room than the U-shaped dinette idea i had in mind., and when extended, it could be a full length bed, that fits two adults, easily. the one shown is low to the ground, but i could raise it up, as i need to clear the water-heater.

just an idea at this point, as i still have yet to CAD draw my camper due to the summer heat. it does seem to be a hot-one this summer... more than normal. or maybe i am just not built for heat anymore.


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## cbramsey5898 (9 mo ago)

I do think that should work well for your needs.


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## travis.farmer (Jun 26, 2021)

i realize i was planning on an outdoor shower setup, with my camper, but as i was looking over the tub base that came out of the camper, i had thought the drain was broken from the base, when in fact the drain tail-stock is all that was broken. so it will be easier to put back than i thought. just put on a new tail-stock, and re-install the base.

now, it is quite clear that the walls around the tub are in pretty bad shape, so i will have to replace the paneling there first. for water-proofing, it had fiber-glass sheets on the walls, but those were in bad shape (hence why the paneling is also in bad shape). so i need to find something to make a surround with. my first thought, is to use some plexiglass or lexan sheets, and seal the corners with a good grade sealant. but at this point, i am almost leaning toward getting a little bit of sheet aluminum, and attaching that to the walls, overlapping the tub mounting flange so the water drains into the tub, and then sealing the corners. there is the chance of the aluminum warping with thermal expansion and contraction, but i don't think it will really hurt anything.

i am debating on what to use for the water valve. i like single handle mixing valves, but they don't do well with freezing, so i would have to make sure i use air to blow out the valve well, every fall. it would arguably be easier to just use a regular RV shower/tub valve. either way, i need to make an access panel on the other side of the wall, in the kitchen space, for access to the back side of the valve for install/maintenance.
i will be upgrading the plumbing supply lines with PEX tubing (red for hot, blue for cold), so in the event of a slight freeze-up, the lines will be more resistant to bursting. i will be making provisions for draining the lines, like drain valves in low spots.

i have not had much ambition for a while now, so not much has been done on the camper. perhaps today will be a good day to putter on something. i would like to get started on the battery box, and the electrical portion of the cabinet area, as so much hinges on how that is laid out. i have been hesitant to put screws in the floor in the area of the tanks, as i don't know how much clearance there is. i think there is some 2" X 2" floor "joists" between the flooring and tanks, but i need to verify first.

as the battery box and electrical cabinet is of a necessary minimum size, i will just build it, without a CAD drawing, as it simply needs to be what it needs to be. then i will figure out the rest in CAD. some stuff won't be figured out in CAD, as it just is what it is. for example, the couch/dinette will be built to fit the space. but when i get to the kitchen cabinets, i will need CAD to figure out the best solution for the space.

i do have some scrap lumber kicking around, and a full 4' X 8' sheet of 3/4" Advantec that i can build the battery box with. mostly a matter of motivating myself.  i am currently on my second cup of coffee already, so being a bit wired from caffeine, i may just be little chatty.  on the plus side, my mind is at work on getting some issues solved that have been bugging me. just a matter of making notes so i don't forget.


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## seniorplc (10 d ago)

Ik hou er echt van. Ik heb veel ideeën voor mijn toekomstige kampeerdromen.


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